View source for Talk:Discworld Timeline

<div class="usermessage">All Threads older than one year have been archived [[Discworld Timeline/Archive 1]] If any user wishes to comment on these discussions please do so here. All new threads should be started here also.</div>




There is unlikely to be any addition to Lspace's original [http://www.lspace.org/books/timeline/dw-timeline.html Timeline], so we may now add new and missing dates (or argue with others), here.

Dates should only be added after an explanatory page has been created (i.e. no red dates). Do not simply copy the original here without verification in an article, there is no reason to duplicate it.



== new timeline ==

So is this definatly where the redone timeline will be? And also, could someone please take down the lspace.org timeline.  --[[User:ArchchancellorJoe|ArchchancellorJoe]] 17:23, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
:This is where the wiki's timeline goes. I don't think there's any intention of removing the original from the L-Space Web. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] 18:18, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
::Why not? I thought it was agreed that it was wrong? --[[User:ArchchancellorJoe|ArchchancellorJoe]] 19:42, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
:Agreed by whom? I disagree with bits of it; other people disagree with other bits. How could we prove it's wrong? Anyway, you'd have to argue with the Cabal, or maybe Esmi: this is our area, others have theirs. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] 19:55, 9 January 2010 (UTC)


== {{NW}} issue ==

In {{MAA}} Vimes had been in the Watch 25 years.  Would that not then require five years between {{MAA}} and {{NW}}? [[User:Solicitr|Solicitr]] 02:48, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

The DWTL and I make it four; perhaps a rounding error. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] 02:58, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

: But then- is the {{NW}} time-hole exactly thirty years, or is that just a 'round number'?  If we know {{FOC}} to be in 1987 (one year before the Tercentenary), and {{G!G!}} two years before that (1985)- there at least we're on solid ground, with {{MAA}} roughly right between, i.e. 1986.  Isn't that, at least, solid? [[User:Solicitr|Solicitr]] 03:10, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

[[Talk:1957 UC|My suggestion]] was thirty-two years; the rest is pretty well accepted and follows Orin Thomas's findings. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] 03:35, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

:  That's good- it also cleans up the Susan Sto Helit problem- exactly 30 years doesn't allow any time between {{M}} and Susan's birth. [[User:Solicitr|Solicitr]] 04:05, 7 March 2010 (UTC)


Query, though- is there any basis besides Orin's bare assumption that {{J}} occurs a mere year after {{FOC}} or, really, that the whole chronology after {{FOC}} really has to be so jammed up? The only idea of the passgae of time in the later books, IIRC, is the fact that {{NW}} prertty much has to occur within 9 months or less of {T5E}- plainly the end of the previous year, since it's winter.  But why does {{T5E}} have to be crammed into the same year as {{J}}? [[User:Solicitr|Solicitr]] 22:59, 7 March 2010 (UTC)
:I think Orin has the whole period of the Watch Series pretty well laid out with explanatory notes. I've written before about the odd compression of events, attributing it to the impossible demand on the History Monks. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] 01:28, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

:: Well, I've read Orin's notes, and I'm not entitrely convinced.  And although the History Monks are a convenient catchall excuse for everything, they really should only be a last resort, when a real temporal impossibility crops up.  I just don't see anything that ''necessitates'' stacking the sequence {{FOC}}-{{J}}-{{T5E}} so closely together.
:: What I'm playing with right now is taking Vetinari's graduation date of 1968 seriously, without postulating a decade-long Grand Sneer.  It occurs to me that perhaps Pterry didn't choose that year any more arbitrarily than he did 1688- Roundworld 1968 was the year the barricades went up again in Paris and abortive 'revolutions' full of Reg Shoes and calls for steeply-discounted love happened all around the world, when two very major political assassinations took place, when Nixon replaced LBJ ("meet the new boss...") [[User:Solicitr|Solicitr]] 16:58, 9 March 2010 (UTC)


Crazy idea: suppose we assume ex hypothesi that the Patrician in {{M}} is actually ''Winder''- whom we know to have held the office for eleven years.  This would place Mort one year before the Revolution, so let's assume it to be 1967.   Susan could easily be born a reasonable three years later, i.e. ca. 1970, and puts {{NW}} ca. 1998, coming up on the 00-millennium. (Although the Time Hole can certainly be viewed as a millennial event, it's not a calendar bullseye since it takes place in May, not on Hogswatch.)[[User:Solicitr|Solicitr]] 17:32, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

:Urg. Won't work.  Bear with me, I'm thinking out loud.  Based on Vimes' dates of service we can't reasonably stretch the spread between {{MAA}} and {{NW}} beyond 8 years at the absolute max (if we assume that in {{MAA}} he means "24, nearly 25"- since it's in the summer sometime, whereas the impression {{NW}} gives is that young Sam first signed up in the winter- and if "30"  in {{NW}} can be fudged up to 32).

:Yuck. Bloody Susan is 16 between 1985-87 maximum possible range; that is, born 1969-71 and we can't escape it. In {{TOT}} (ends the same day as all of {{NW}} "present") she is 20. Exactly 20 or about 20?  [[User:Solicitr|Solicitr]] 22:14, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

No, I didn't think it would. I've been at it about three years and nothing dissuades me from 1957 (maybe +/-1) for the G.R. and centuries ending on the eights. Vetinari taking over the Tyranny straight out of school doesn't sound likely, either. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] 23:16, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

::HM!  Well, whaddya know!  {{TOT}}, unless I missed it, never mentions Susan's age at all- it is *not* pegged four years after {{SM}}. Well that relaxes things a bit.  Guess I just assumerd the statement in the DWTL was based on text, rather than its own dating.

::Ok, let's review the bidding.  Anchor point- {{FOC}} occurs in Grune 1987. Declared fact: Susan is 16 in {{SM}}, which necessarily follows {{G!G!}}- which happens "nearly two years" before {{FOC}}, or in 1985.  All this just repeats Orin, and there's no wriggle-room at all. Now, {{MAA}} comes before {{SM}}, and 1986 is the sensible assumption, although as hard limits all we can say is between 1985-87.  Still, '86 is close enough because the only matter of chronological import is that {{MAA}} is (I believe) ''roughly'' (not nec. exactly) 25 years after Vimes' enlistment and hence the Revolution (we have to assume that young Sam in {{NW}} has less than a year in the Watch, prob just a few months).

::From this we have to conclude that Susan was born ''circa'' 1970, and the Revolution was ''circa'' 1960.  There's fudge room for both dates, but not too much.  All of this of course just repeats Orin- but it's the wriggle room that matters here, especially if we want to "uncrowd" the late 80s. If we accept for the moment that {{MAA}} is in 1986, and that 25 and 30 are exact numbers, then {{TOT}}/{{NW}} are in 1991 and the Revolution in 1961.  These numbers work for both Vimes and Susan. But how much "stretch" do we have in them?  The later we can get away with placing {{TOT}}/{{NW}}, not only can we uncrowd, but we can minimize the rather large gap between {{NW}} (past) and Vetinari's graduation in 1968. [[User:Solicitr|Solicitr]] 00:01, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

"Vetinari taking over the Tyranny straight out of school doesn't sound likely, either".  There we're trapped between hard dates.  Lord V graduated school in 1968; he became Patrician by the time of Sourcery. We can't change that.[[User:Solicitr|Solicitr]] 00:11, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
:But even if we consider 1968 a "hard" date (and it's an isolated datum with no support itself) it doesn't mean he's ten years younger. He's still likely to have returned to graduate after some hiatus. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] 21:20, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

:: Maybe he had to re-take Concealment. [[User:Solicitr|Solicitr]] 22:18, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

:::Although published between {{TOT}} and {{NW}}, {{TT}} plainly cannot happen between them.  {{TT}} opens on an "icy night" with "freezing fog" with slush and patches of ice, and so must be set in the winter before, since ''The Times'' is in existence by {{NW}}; but must take place after {{T5E}}, since the Watch has an Igor. Therefore {{TT}} must take place at the start of the year, tentatively 1989. [[User:Solicitr|Solicitr]] 02:20, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

==The {{ER}} question==

Why does the L-space timeline and derivatives postulate 14 years or so for the events of {{ER}}, not counting Esk's birth?  I don't recall anything that suggests Granny and Esk spent more than a few months in A-M prior to the Dungeon Dimensions breakin. [[User:Solicitr|Solicitr]] 20:21, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
:No one seems to know. It's probably a typo/pasting error. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] 21:20, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

Ok. Which means therefore that we don't have any particular dates for it at all, save coming after {{TLF}} and before {{WS}}. Right? [[User:Solicitr|Solicitr]] 22:17, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
:There's no mention of the rest of the Lancre cast, so we assume it precedes ''Wyrd Sisters''. The coven's time seems to be accounted for afterward. I don't see any particular evidence for 1966, but there isn't much leeway. Anyway, Eskarina Smith is now in her late thirties! --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] 00:25, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

Unless of course she went back to Lancre, and 'saved' 15 years. [[User:Solicitr|Solicitr]] 00:45, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

== How long is a century? ==

Is it necessarily 100 years?  Or is it an English word used to translate a Morporkian term for a period of ''about'' a hundred years? A-M uses the apparently ancient animal-name year cycle, like the Chinese and Maya and others; we don't know how many are in the cycle, and whether a 'century' represents one or multiple times around, although we can assume it's an even number of cycles.

I've played around with powers and multiples of 8, and counting in base-8, which seemed to make sense; but doing it that way doesn't produce a 'century' ending anywhere near ~1990, whether we start with UC 1 or AM 1 = UC -2564. But in further messing around I came up with this:  The 40th 'century' after the founding of A-M hits in 1996- a reasonable year- if a 'century' is 114 UC years or 57 AM Great Years: '''57''', Pterry's favorite number.

One might suppose that an animal cycle of 57 years was part of the AM calendar, long predating the UC and numbered years.  Perhaps (just to play a bit) the introduction of the UC four-season year involved splitting the 57 Great Years in two, so that (for example) the 8-season Year of the Serpent became the Year of the Notional Serpent and the Year of the Ephemeral Serpent.

Making 1996 the turn of the Fruitbat/Anchovy to me at least feels a lot more comfortable, and alleviates the severe crowding of what the existing timeline wants to back densely into 1988/89. [[User:Solicitr|Solicitr]] 04:27, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

You said that, but the history around 1988 is pretty well documented and seems to indicate 1989. How do you insert seven years? --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] 05:36, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

:Well, is it so documented?  For the period following {{FOC}}, we can I think state firmly that the narrative order follows publication order (except {{TT}}); but IIRC the only indication we have for any particular period of time having passed between books is that {{NW}} falls in May following the winter of {{T5E}} (Sybil's pregnancy). We can also I think deduce that {{T!}} has to take place when Young Sam is ''at least'' 2 years old. But how much time passes between {{FOC}} and {{J}}? Between {{J}} and {{T5E}}?  [[User:Solicitr|Solicitr]] 00:41, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

Young Sam is 14 months old to begin {{T!}}. (Story-reading scene, p 123 of 398 in H-C pb.)<BR>
Sam Jr was born at the end of {{NW}}. Various comments suggest this was 1989.<sup>1</sup><BR>
Sybil was pregnant in {{TFE}} the previous autumn. What's the gestation period out of a 400-day year?<BR>
{{J}} (1988) and<BR>
{{FOC}} (1987) are internally dated by the Civil War.<BR>
{{FOC}} states Carrot has been in A-M two years, placing<BR>
{{MAA}} between 1987 and<BR>
{{G!G!}} in 1985.

(1) I assume the Krullian/animal century changes after `88, having found no workable alternative. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] 23:38, 17 March 2010 (UTC)


:{{FOC}} is definitely set in 1987, agreed, and the previous Watch books approx 1 per year.  But is {{J}} internally dated relative to the Tercentenary?  If so, I've missed it.

:As for what follows, that is the sequence {{T5E}}-{{NW}}-{{T!}}, their dating depends on the end of the century, which is the whole problem. 
[[User:Solicitr|Solicitr]] 00:26, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

So you'd like to insert several years between {{FOC}} and {{J}}, making Sam and Sybil noticeably older yet before having their first child? I'm pretty sure there's a mention of the anniversary in ''Feet'', but even without, a large gap sounds unlikely. Where's any evidence? --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] 01:09, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

==Bigger Table==
On the other hand, another way of lining these up might be to look at each calendar year (after things settle down) as covering one episode in each of the primary story-arcs (Watch, Witches, Wizards/Rincewind and Death/Susan)

On this line of thinking, we would get the table below:

{|border="1"
| '''Year'''
|
| '''Witches'''
| '''Wizards'''
| '''Death'''
| '''Watch'''
|
|'''Civic Progress'''
|-
|1985
|
|{{WA}}
|{{E}} (or subplots in {{MP}} and {{RM}})
|{{RM}}
|{{G!G!}}
|
|{{MP}}
|-
|1986
|
|{{LL}}
|{{IT}}
|{{SM}}
|{{MAA}}
|
|{{SM}}
|-
|1987
|
|''[[Maskerade]]''
| -
|{{H}} (turn of year)
|{{FOC}}
|
| -
|-
|1988
|
|{{CJ}}
|{{TLC}}
| -
|{{J}}<br> {{T5E}} (turn of year),
|
| ({{T5E}})
|-
|1989
|
|diverted to Tiffany Aching series?
|diverted to ''Science'' series?
|{{TOT}} (May)
|{{NW}} (May)
|
|{{TT}} (start of year)
|-
|1990
|
|
|
|
|{{T!}} (fall)
|
|{{GP}}
|-
|1991
|
|
|{{UA}}
|
|
|
|{{MM}}
|-
|}

There is however a problem here with Susan's age.  If she's 16 in {{SM}}, then we have to allow her at least another full school year (graduating at 17), plus another X months as a governess before Hogswatch.  {{H}} thus could take place at the end of 1987; but a problem comes up in that by {{TOT}} she is in at least her ''second'' year as a teacher (other teachers are 'complaining' about her former students' precocity).  That would mean we would have to allow her, at minimum, the 88-89 and (most of) the 89-90 school years before {{TOT}}.

:Why do we need to allow her another full school year?  It's common to leave school at 16 in the UK with your basic (GCSE) qualifications in public schools.  Given that she appears to be at a private school however it's quite possible she's been studying at a higher level.  Having said that I'd always assumed that she was in her very late teens/early twenties during the events of {{H}}.--[[User:Megahurts|Megahurts]] 09:33, 26 October 2010 (CEST)

::Well, given the rules and discipline circumscribing Susan in {{SM}}, it certainly doesn't appear to be a uni enviironment at all, but a school; especially since UU is "Discworld's only institution of higher learning." At any rate, the book explicitly states that she's 16 years old. {{H}} is 'a few years' later: but that's the problem. --[[User:Solicitr|Solicitr]] 18:52, 15 November 2010 (CET)


Sybil's age?  The text makes it clear that she's old enough to make childbearing a risky proposition; besides, we have no idea how old she really is anyway, save that she's older by some than Vimes. [[User:Solicitr|Solicitr]] 19:19, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

:The great thing about links is that you don't have to put everything on one page and I think the six-column table is far too busy and complex, especially when extended to three or four screens long. I'd rather keep it down to one line per year and you can link to the year article or a book article or some other highlight.<BR>
:We can say definitely that Sybil is NOT older than Sam, from his statement that she'd looked sixteen when he met her adolescent self in {{NW}}. Sam was at least that old; I've had to age him to near eighteen after some recent comments. To speculate from that, she was a '''big''' girl and girls mature a little faster: she may have been fourteen. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] 22:51, 18 March 2010 (UTC)


OK, you're right about Sybil.  That would put her in her mid-forties as of {{NW}} and Young Sam's birth, which seems about right.  Now, what about the general proposition that, more-or-less, each year contains one 'installment' from each principal story-arc?  It pretty much fits what you have- although given the matter of Susan's age I think it works better if the books from {{T5E}} onward were moved down a year, and also avoids piling {{T5E}} up with {{J}} a mere six months or less apart.

On another matter:  According to {{MAA}} the Assassins' Guild offered a post-grad program, which could be the excuse we need to explain Veninari's 1968 diploma. [[User:Solicitr|Solicitr]] 18:28, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

==Ridcully==
I've tipped in a couple of dates which aren't quite those of the DWTL.  In {{SM}} we learn that the Dean is 72 and Ridcully seven months younger.  Since this is at the end of the year (1986) we can fudge Mustrum's birth year to 1915 and his departure at age 27 to 1943.  I don't believe this causes a problem re Granny, since the numbers in {{LL}} are fairly approximate. I don't see a problem with their meeting in about 1933 or so, with Esme born ca. 1912. (Remember also that Granny "loses" fifteen years of age relative to Ridcully thanks to the Lancre Timeslip).--[[User:Solicitr|Solicitr]] 01:47, 28 March 2010 (UTC)


=={{TLC}}- where does it fit?==

Interesting problem, here, since this book explicitly takes place during (A-M) ''winter.''  When?  Can hardly be that of {{T5E}}/{{TT}}, so it must be the previous winter.  Is it then the winter before {{J}}, which happens in early summer? But if so, how did the Wizards sail all the way back from Fourecks in so short a time?

It seems that all the pieces fit best if {{TLC}} is set the winter ''following'' the Leshp War, and {T5E} the winter after that; in other words, moving that book and those that follow down a year. [[User:Solicitr|Solicitr]] 02:42, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

:More on this, following the turning seasons of the books during this period. 
:Hogfather- the very end of the year
:Jingo- the end of the academic year, late spring/early summer
:The Last Continent- Winter (in Ankh-Morpork)
:Carpe Jugulum- late winter or very early spring
:The 5th Elephant- early winter
:The Truth- winter
:Thief of Time/Night Watch- May.

:The last four necessarily take place in one stretch of six months or thereabout. I suppose one could shove {{CJ}} into that same winter, just after {{TT}}- but it's hard to imagine the presence of Otto and the fairly numerous Black Ribboners as being effectively simultaneous with the Magpyrs; it doesn't really matter a lot since {{CJ}} has no cross-references outside Lancre and the Witches.  {{TLC}} and {{T5E}}/{{TT}} '''cannot''' take place in the same winter- they have to be a year apart. All in all, I think it is unavoidable to conclude that these books cover a span of two-and-a-half years, not one-and-a-half; in other words
:{{H}} last day of 1987
:{{J}} approx June 1988
:{{TLC}} winter 1988-89
:{{CJ}} early spring 1989
:{{T5E}} late 1989
:{{TT}} early 1990
:{{TOT}}/{{NW}} May 1990.

:{{CJ}} might have to be taken as published out-of-order, if we are to accept that it occurs just before the end of the Century (assumed to be 1988).  In that case {{CJ}} would slot in between {{H}} and {{J}}. On the other hand, let's not forget that the Lancre calendar is 15 years out of sync with the UU calendar. --[[User:Solicitr|Solicitr]] 15:37, 12 April 2010 (UTC)



==would this timeline work in with the current one?==

[[image:Timeline.PNG]]


==Ages of Characters==

A thought has occurred. This is by way of being momentous so I shall offer it up for discussion. We say "years" here and elsewhere, and then say e.g. "53 years old". BUT - if a year is 400 days (or even 800 for the ''full'' year), does that mean that "twenty years later" is actually (20 x 365 days = 7300 days) later '''or is it''' (20 x 400 days = 8000 days, which is 21 years and 11 months by Roundworld reckoning)? 

Furthermore, if we say that Sam Vimes is "51" (based on difference between d.o.b. on his page and the date of {{MM}}), is he 51 as we understand it, or ((51 x 400)/365 = 55 years and 9 months) by our reckoning, with the concommitant further ageing and loss of youthful vigour - and the same for evey character we come across?

It's an intriguing point that has suddenly begun to bother me.  --[[User:Knmatt|Knmatt]] 22:52, 24 October 2010 (CEST)
:It's bothered me for some time, `cause I don't know how long the day is, either. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] 00:47, 25 October 2010 (CEST)

::Who says that disc humans must live an equivalent lifetime as roundworld? There's a strong magical field there. So the length of a day and a year can be irrelevant --[[User:Fhh98|Fhh98]] 02:36, 25 October 2010 (CEST)

you could infer similarity in human longevity from what the canon books have to say about the relative ages of men and dwarves - I believe where this is discussed there is a remark to the extent that Dwarves may only be half the height of humans but live three times as long. And three hundred eyars is quoted as a typical long-lived dwarf age, thus implying that a century is the upeer limit for humans (regard Windle Poons and some of the more senior candidates for the professinoal attention of Death, Mort and Susan).  So if 70-80 is the average for modern Britain or the USA, Discworld humans might tend to live a little longer? --[[Special:Contributions/194.70.181.1|194.70.181.1]] 10:01, 25 October 2010 (CEST) a.k.a. AgProv

: Yes but that is a relative measure. A day and a year arent defined in relation to roundworld. Therefore, a year that's 400 days long or 800 days long doesn't matter. --[[Special:Contributions/98.214.181.52|98.214.181.52]] 14:52, 25 October 2010 (CEST)

::Moving Pictures, on page 1, says "...the Discworld, world and mirror of worlds." I think this means that a lot of the basics are the same from our roundworld to the discworld. Day length would be the same, even if the hours are not. The 400 days per year would allow for the jammed up time for Vimes, although it may mean that Lady Sybil's gestation period is a bit longer than roundworld's women.--[[User:Docsooter|Docsooter]] 12:10, 17 July 2011 (CEST)

: If I'm not mistaken, during Wyrd Sisters Hewel and Vitoler are talking and Hewel says, roughly, half the height and ''twice'' the age so that the lives of humans and dwarfs average out the same. If the dwarves do live to be 300 years old than that would make the average human life 150 years. This extra length can be explained by the magical field. Though if the average life comes close to 150 years than why would a barbarian aged 87 be that impressive, he would be just past midlife.--[[User:Docsooter|Docsooter]] 12:10, 17 July 2011 (CEST)

:: As it was said by someone above, it was said somewhere dwarves live thrice as long, not twice (someone get a citation here, please. So, not only would a 87 year old barbarian be quite impressive if you see the age but...He's a BARBARIAN. They aren't expected to become older than maybe 40, 50 top.--[[User:LilMaibe|LilMaibe]] 18:52, 17 July 2011 (CEST)

::: I understand that someone had already stated that dwarves lived three times as long. I also understand that "three hundred [years] is quoted as a typical long-lived dwarf age," like that person also said. So if my recollections are correct (and I will look for the citation when my texts are available) than a long lived human life would be 150 years. Therefore if a "BARBARIAN" were 87 years old he would be 58% of a long lived life span. If a long lived human life span were 100 years than he would be an equivalent age of 58 years old. If you are saying that a barbarian were 40 or 50 years old out of a 100 year long lived life, than that would be kind of impressive. However, if my information is incorrect, and Dwarves do live to be three times the age of humans than an 87 year old barbarian would be extremely impressive considering that he would be about twice the expected age of an average barbarian. This argument hinges upon what the texts say on the comparative life spans of dwarves and humans.--[[User:Docsooter|Docsooter]] 21:50, 20 July 2011 (CEST)

:::: Well, whenever the topic of long life for humans came up, 100 was most often top, give or take a few years if one was a wizard(that managed to not be in anyone's way). Windle Poons is an outstanding example of old age. Another example, look at Ponder in The Last Continent: For a brief moment he becomes 104 and, after getting back to being 24 again feels as if he heard a (scythe-)blade being sharpened.--[[User:LilMaibe|LilMaibe]] 22:18, 20 July 2011 (CEST)


==Problems with the timeline==

Hi all. I’m gently constructing my own timeline and agree with the bulk of the main timeline page and many of the points here, however there are 4 problems in the current timeline that need addressing. 

1. The Wyrd Sisters Prologue needs to start two years before the timeslip not one. The book starts with the death of Verence in the Autumn which is followed by a jump of a year to Hwel in AM the following Autumn (page 57). The land then awakes that winter (page 61). Nanny Ogg is arrested the following Spring and then the timeslip takes place. Since we can’t move the timeslip forwards, Wyrd Sisters must start one year earlier in 1967. As a result I’d push Equal Rites back a year (to 1965) to leave room between the two books.

2. The date of Sourcery has to be wrong. In The Truth, Wuffles is stated as being 16. His first appearance is in Sourcery where he is described as being “extremely elderly”. The average life-expectancy of a wire-haired terrier is 9 years, which really means Wuffles should be 7 or more (unless Vetinari has a magically aged dog). Even if you allow a slightly lower age, Sourcery cannot take place in 1974 as Wuffles would be no more than a puppy. Given the dating of The Truth, 1981 would be more acceptable. 

This, however, causes a problem down the line. Rincewind in Sourcery has been a wizard for 16 years (at least its 16 years since he first tried to attain level one, which must predate The Colour of Magic).  If Sourcery is 1981, The Colour of Magic is a year too early, which thoroughly wrecks everything. The least destructive solution would be to put The Truth at the end of 1989 and so move Sourcery back to 1980, placing it 16 years after The Colour of Magic which therefore takes place some months after Rincewind leaves UU.

3. Maskerade is explicitly set only 3 months after Magrat’s wedding in Lords and Ladies. That takes place around midsummer, so Maskerade must take place in 1986.

4. The date of the start of the Century of the Anchovy can’t be right. It’s still explicitly the Century of the Fruitbat in Carpe Jugulum, The Fifth Elephant and The Truth. The first clear mention of the Anchovy is in Going Postal although it could already be in place for Thief of Time onwards. I know this wrecks the ’88 Century change but that’s the way of it. 

Actually if we could get rid of the 1688 problem everything would fall into place nicely; putting Winder’s fall in ’68 (as per Vetinari’s graduation) would place Thief of Time just on the Millennium. Damned if I can think of a sensible way of achieving it though. In the realm of non-sensible ways, one could note that, although Stoneface is noted as being Commander in 1688 and as killing the last King. It isn’t explicitly stated that they happen in the same year. One could, at a pinch, presume that he became Commander in 1688 but didn’t kill the king until 1697. An ugly solution but just about viable. 

An alternative approach would be to put Carpe Jugulum, Fifth Elephant and The Truth in the same year as Jingo and The Last Continent. This means that it is snowing in Unseen University in late Summer but, given the magical nature of the place, I’m not certain that’s a problem. It’s certainly not explicitly stated as being winter, just that there’s snow. 

Looking forward to a lively discussion! [[User:LordJuss|LordJuss]] 15:48, 14 September 2011 (CEST)

: Leaving 1,3 and 4 to the side... I dare say you answered your own question in 2. Granted, it's only a fan-theory, but some speculate that, upon restoring the city Coin also turned Wuffles into a puppy again to apologise for turning Vetinari into a lizard. (AND and EDIT) 'not stated as winter', eh? While yes, you musn't forget the basic rules that are there in the books: If weather not fitting the season happens it is mentioned. Therefore snow equals winter, on the campus and in the city.--[[User:LilMaibe|LilMaibe]] 11:37, 15 September 2011 (CEST)

:: On the first one, it's an interesting theory but there's no evidence and, more importantly, it doesn't help. Coin may well have made Wuffles a puppy again and this would explain how a dog who should live roughly 9 years manages 16. But, unless Vetinari also started counting his age from 0 again, he's still 16 in The Truth, so Sourcery cannot be in 1974. Regarding the second point. Yup, couldn't agree more. Unfortunately that means the 1988 millenium doesn't work and we're back to trying to find a way to disbelieve the 1688 reference. All suggestions gratefully accepted. [[User:LordJuss|LordJuss]] 13:26, 15 September 2011 (CEST)

::: This may sound stupid but...What if the one thing where Vetinari is absolutely uncreative is naming pets. Just like Leonard fails at naming his contraptions, Vetinari might have this one weakness that so far all his pets were Terriers named Wuffles.--[[User:LilMaibe|LilMaibe]] 15:04, 15 September 2011 (CEST)

:::: That's actually funny enough to be viable. But the point is, it doesn't matter. The position of Sourcery is pretty harmless and it can be moved to 1980 without causing problems anywhere else. That way we match the text and don't have to invoke oddities - no matter how amusing. [[User:LordJuss|LordJuss]] 15:19, 15 September 2011 (CEST)

== Pyramids(?) ==

The events of {{P}} do not show up anywhere in the timeline. This is important, especially as regards [[Mericet]]. Teatime mentioned that he had Mericet as a teacher, so knowing the time of ''Pyramids'' would be very useful in determining the old goat's age.

== Sourcery ==

Upon re-reading Sourcery I stumbled about a few mentions of time: First, we, the readers, are reminded Rincewind's been a student at the UU for 16 years and achieved nothing when it comes to ranks. The same information was given in the first two books, what makes sense, if you take that students start at the age of 16 and that Rincewind's roundworld version is 33. Second, there's a mention of the Luggage having eaten a spellbook last year. This, while never said, is likely the Octavo. Third, Rincewind complains that he's been behind the staff for 20 years, which is, likely, rounding up from 16-17. All in all I think Sourcery is rather taking place one or two years after TLF and not 10. Thoughts? --[[User:LilMaibe|LilMaibe]] 14:54, 11 April 2012 (CEST)
:I'd rather think not, because if we stipulate that Vetinari was the Patrician a year after {{TLF}} our heads will explode. [[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] 05:15, 14 April 2012 (CEST)
::Well, the patrician in TLF was vetinari. written by a worse author. (Sir Terry's own words :) )--[[User:LilMaibe|LilMaibe]] 00:14, 15 April 2012 (CEST)

== Books later than ''Snuff''? ==

Where to place {{TSC}} and {{RS}} in relation to everything else? I was trying to work out, for purposes of fanfic, how old Princess Margaret Esemerelda Note Spelling of Lancre would be in a given year. My tenuous calculations mean that she'd need to be over sixteen for my purposes (honourable intent!) but I just need clarification.. the story I'm writing might take place a year or two after {{RS}}. [[User:AgProv|AgProv]] ([[User talk:AgProv|talk]]) 23:16, 21 February 2016 (UTC)
:For some reason, any reply I enter is rejected by the spam filter. I can't guess what's triggering it. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 00:57, 22 February 2016 (UTC)
:Trying again, I'd say Esmerelda was only about ten, but the timeline goes all over after {{T!}}. She's a year to two older than Young Sam, so near eight for {{SN}}.  --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 01:01, 22 February 2016 (UTC)

== The Discworld timeline is definitely wrong, lets talk!==

The timeline as depicted contradicts several points in the novels. I think this is because too much of it is guesswork instead of pinning down novels to exact dates. A lot of the discussion was made before the later novels that help us map out the rest of the Discworld.

Let me point out some dates.

The hard dates we know are 1987 for Feet of Clay. 1968 for the graduation of the patrician. and that Making Money takes place after the bank crash of 98.

Ok so where do we go from here?

-[[User:WiktorReads|WiktorReads]] 2021-03-30

== Lets start with an easy plot point. [[Young Sam Vimes]] ==

'''[[Young Sam Vimes]] is born in {{NW}}'''

''"Sybil was sitting up. He saw, through the mist of exhaustion, that she was holding something wrapped in a shawl. “He’s called Sam, Sam,” she said. “And no argument.”"''

'''{{TOT}} Takes place at the same time/before {{NW}} as the same storm occurs in both.'''

{{NW}}:''The lightning struck. Windows blew out and iron gutters melted. Roofs lifted into the air and settled again. Buildings shook. But this storm had been blowing in from far across the plains, pushing the natural background magic ahead of it. It dumped it now, all in one go. They said afterward that the bolt of lightning hit a clockmaker’s shop in the Street of Cunning Artificers, stopping all the clocks at that instant.''

'''{{T5E}} Takes place 1~9 months before {{NW}}[[Sybil Ramkin]] Is pregnant with [[Young Sam Vimes]]'''

'''{{TT}} Takes place 1~9 months before {{NW}}. it's after the invention of [[Clacks]] and The [[Ankh-Morpork Times]] doesn't appear before {{NW}}'''
 
{{TT}}: ''"Dibbler sighed. “I missed out on the semaphore. Just didn’t see it coming. Next thing you know, everyone’s got a clacks company. Big money... ...“And there’s this clacks from Lancre that came in when you’d gone home,” said the dwarf. “That’ll cost us another fifty pence for the messenger.''

'''{{J}} Takes place "a few months" before {{T5E}} as [[Buggy Swires]] Joined the watch "a few months" before {{T5E}} and is in the watch in {{J}}'''

''{{J}}: “That’s Probationary Constable Buggy Swires, sir. He likes to get a good view.”
{{T5E}}: Constable Swires had been on the force only for a few months, but news had gone around and already he inspired respect, or at least the bladder-trembling terror that can pass for respect on these occasions''

'''[[Where's My Cow?]] Takes place 13 months after {{NW}} as [[Young Sam Vimes]] is 1 year old and the event is mentioned in {{T!}}'''

''[[Where's My Cow?]]: "1 Year from the birth of Young Sam"
{{T!}}: "after a trying day, he’d tried the Vimes street version" - *Thud!* "to read to Young Sam, who was one year old." - *Where's My Cow?*''

'''{{T!}} Takes place 14 months after {{NW}} and {{IT}} as [[Young Sam Vimes]] is 14 Months old'''

''"fourteen-month-old baby"''

'''{{SN}} Takes place 6 years after {{NW}} and {{IT}} as [[Young Sam Vimes]] is 6 years old'''

''"an absolute hoot for a boy just turned six... ...the whole process being a matter of huge entertainment to a boy of six"''

'''{{RS}} Takes place 8 years after {{T5E}} which would be about 7~8 years after {{NW}}'''

''"The King coughed before saying to Vimes, “I remember Sergeant Littlebottom when we met by the Scone of Stone eight years ago. Oh, yes, I remember her.”"''

-[[User:WiktorReads|WiktorReads]] 2021-03-30

== So where do we place the [[Moist von Lipwig]] series here? ==

'''{{GP}} Takes place 3 almost 4 years from the invention of the first clacks company which takes place some-time very close to {{T5E}}'''
 
{{GP}}: ''"He hadn’t seen a clacks until three years ago, when the first company was founded... ...Sane Alex and Mad Al were old men in the clacks business; they’d been in it for almost four years."''
{{T5E}}: ''"The new guild must be coining money. Even from here he could see the scaffolding, as workers feverishly attached still more gantries and paddles to the main tower." "It had all happened so fast. Who’d have believed it?" "And it had caught on as fast as every other craze did in the big city."''

'''{{GP}} also have to take place some time before {{T!}} as [[Moist von Lipwig]]s stamp invention is mentioned.'''

{{T!}}: ''Remember the cabbage-scented stamp last month?... ...Oh yes, two stamps. They were very nearly identical. They both showed Koom Valley, a rocky area ringed by mountains. They both showed the battle. But in one, little figures of trolls were pursuing dwarfs from right to left, and in the other, dwarfs were chasing trolls from left to right''

'''So {{GP}} cannot be placed later than 14 months after {{NW}} Where can we place it? Well lets go back. {{T5E}} has to take place 1~9 months before {{NW}} and {{J}} takes place "a few months" before {{T5E}} Assuming that the maximum amount "a few months" could be is 12 as 13 is a whole year. the maximum amount of time {{J}} could take place before {{NW}} is 21 months. so we got 21+14=35 months to play with. 3 years is 39 months which is already breaking the limit.. So the only reasonable suggestion is that The first company is founded and starts production some time before {{J}} but it starts up placing towers in {{J}} and we know it's still in an early phase of expanding in {{T5E}} for instance Bonk has only had a tower for 1 month'''

{{T5E}}: ''The clacks tower had only been up for a month, and was being roundly denounced throughout Bonk as an intrusion.''

'''{{MM}} Is definitely just 1 year later than {{GP}}'''

''"the Post Office burned down last year"
"A year ago he’d asked Adora Belle Dearheart to be his wife"
"Pray to the gods to get a big heap of gold? When had that ever worked? Well, last year it worked, true, but that was because I already knew where a big heap of gold was buried."''

'''Now comes the feared dating of the timeline. {{MM}} states clearly that it's sometime recently during or after 1998.'''

''"We have been badly buffeted in recent years. The crash of 88, the crash of 93, the crash of 98…"''

'''This means that {{GP}} cannot be earlier than 1997. And since {{GP}} has to be sometime before {{T!}} we know that {{T!}} can't be earlier than 1997 either. Which would mean that [[Where's My Cow?]] can't be earlier than 1997 {{NW}} can't be earlier than 1996 {{T5E}} and {{TT}} can't be earlier than 1995 and {{J}} can't be earlier than 1994 This means that the [[Discworld timeline]] has the latter novels completely wrong. to add to this {{SN}} can't be earlier than 2002 and {{RS}} can't be earlier than 2004''' 

'''The [[Glorious Revolution]] took place more'n 30 years ago in {{T!}} which means that it's very unlikely to take place earlier than 1959 as that is 39 years before {{T!}} at earliest. and they would probably say more'n 40 or 40 years ago if that was the case.'''

{{T!}}: ''Barricades, sir, Colon prompted. “More’n thirty years ago?” Vimes gave a curt nod. Oh yes, he remembered the Glorious Revolution''

'''It is also clearly stated in {{MAA}} that the [[Glorious Revolution]] happened 25 years ago as that was when Vimes joined the force in {{NW}} this would put the [[Glorious Revolution]] 25 years before {{MAA}} in 1986 which would be 1961.'''

{{MAA}}: ''Vimes said, I’m retiring from the Watch tomorrow. Twenty-five years on the streets—''


-[[User:WiktorReads|WiktorReads]] 2021-03-30

== Early Watch Novels ==

'''{{FOC}} Is 1 year before the 300th anniversary of the battle of ankh-morpork. [[The Discworld Companion]] companion details this very well.'''

{{FOC}}: ''“Thing is, it’s the tricentre—tricera—this three-hundred-year celebration thing next year, Mr. Vimes…”... ...“Well…we’re going to recreate the Battle of Ankh-Morpork for the celebrations... ...“Er…I’m going to be King Lorenzo, sir. Er…you know…the last king, the one your…er…”... ...“And who drew the straw to play Stoneface Vimes?”''
[[The Discworld Companion]]: ''"The last civil war, and execution and revelation of the personal habits of lorenzo the kind in 1688, marked the final end of any kind of monarchy in the city."''
[[The Discworld Companion]]: ''The Ankh-Morpork Civil war... ...this would have been 1688.''

'''So {{FOC}} is 1987 and we can easily plot out {{G!G!}} in 1985 and {{MAA}} in 1986'''

{{FOC}}: ''But he hasn’t touched a drop all year!” said Carrot, giving the recumbent Vimes a shake. “He goes to meetings about it and everything!''
{{FOC}}: ''Carrot paused. It said a lot about Captain Carrot that, even after almost two years in Ankh-Morpork''

'''We also know that {{SM}} takes place some time between {{MAA}} and {{FOC}}, Detritus takes place in the watch in {{MAA}}, is a Constable in {{SM}}, and Sergeant in {{FOC}}. This means that {{SM}} has to take place ether 1986 or 1987'''

'''In {{SM}} 1986 or 1987 [[Susan Sto Helit]] is 16 years old. This means that {{M}} takes place some time 16 years before. But it cannot be before {{TCOM}} & {{TLF}} as {{M}} includes The [[Librarian]] in ape-shape. ''“Oook.”'' and Vetinari didn't graduate before 1968 which means that {{TCOM}} & {{TLF}} cannot be before 1968. This means that {{M}} has to take place some time in either 1969, 1970 or 1971.'''

{{TT}}: ''Lord Vetinari “—who graduated with full honors from the Guild of Assassins in 1968,''

'''TP has made it very clear that the patrician is Vetinari in {{TCOM}} & {{TLF}}'''

[[The Discworld Companion]]: ''The holder of the office throughout the Discworld Chronicles (apart from some events in night watch) is Havelock, Lord vetinari''

lspace.org/books/apf/the-colour-of-magic: ''Terry Pratchett: "I'm pretty certain that the same Patrician was in all the books. [...] He's clearly lost weight and got more austere. It must be the pressure... ..."I've always thought the Patrician is a party animal. Can you imagine waking up next day and remembering all those witty things you said and did, and then realising that he was listening?"''

-[[User:WiktorReads|WiktorReads]] 2021-03-30

== The place for [[Tiffany Aching]] ==

'''There are no great places to link [[Tiffany Aching]] to the rest of the series, the best we have is in {{TSC}} detailing that the railway is in it's infancy, this places {{TSC}} sometime close after or during {{RS}}'''

{{TSC}}: ''"The railway was still in its infancy – and already there were these arches"... ...‘Last train into Twoshirts is that... ...she thought: Train? It’s big. It’s iron, and we don’t know about it. And what we don’t know about it could get us killed... ...A belch of smoke from a train steaming over the arches almost enveloped both the dwarf and Geoffrey... ...This fell into a very handy pause as an almighty roar announced another train shooting overhead, smoke and smut billowing in the air"''

'''We know since earlier that {{RS}} can't be earlier than 2004, with this in mind we can place out the rest of the Tiffany novels.'''

'''{{ISWM}} is one to two years before {{TSC}}''' so it cannot be earlier than 2002

{{TSC}}: ''"He recognized her immediately – he had had a bad moment when she’d called in a year or two back and let slip she knew the Feegles." (Dave the broomstick repair man on the event in ISWM when Tiffany was 15)''

'''{{W}} is 3 years before {{ISWM}} so it cannot be earlier than 1999'''

{{ISWM}}: ''You’re not sixteen yet and I see you running around nursing people and bandaging people and who knows what chores... ...some seven years ago you took an iron skillet and went into some sort of fairyland
{{W}}: Tiffany gave up and sighed. 'I’m almost thirteen,' she said. 'I can look after myself.'" and "It was her birthday....Thirteen years old.''

'''This also fits in with {{W}} having to take place sometime after The Truth as it mentions the newspaper.'''

{{W}}: ''*This was reported in the newspapers, and shortly afterward a widow wrote to him saying how much she admired a man who really understood about hygiene. They later were seen walking together, so it’s an ill wind, as they say….''
{{W}}: ''Assistant Postmaster Groat did not believe in doctors. They made you ill, he thought. So he put sulfur in his socks every morning and he was proud to say that he had never had a day’s illness in his life. This may have been because not many people cared to come very close to him, because of the smell. Something did, though. A gale roared into his post office when he was opening the door one morning and blew his socks clean off.* And no one heard the Wintersmith say: “Sulfur enough to make a man!”''

'''{{HFOS}} is 1 year before {{W}} so it cannot be earlier than 1998'''

{{HFOS}}: ''"Anyway, she was eleven now, and had a feeling that after a certain age you shouldn’t slide down holes in the ground to talk to little men."''

'''{{WFM}} is 2 years before {{HFOS}} so it cannot be earlier than 1996'''

{{WFM}}: ''She was nine years old and felt that Tiffany was going to be a hard name to live up to.''

-[[User:WiktorReads|WiktorReads]] 2021-03-30

== Adding more novels to the timeline ==

'''{{SM}} takes place in 1986 or 1987 and We know the age of [[Mustrum Ridcully]] in {{SM}}'''

{{SM}}: ''The Dean: He sighed. He was seventytwo... ...Dean: Your trouble, Archchancellor, is that you don’t understand people of our age!” “What…you mean seven months older than me?” said Ridcully.''

'''[[Mustrum Ridcully]] is newly appointed Archchancellor in {{MP}} at 67 years old. Since he's 72 in {{SM}} in either 1986 or 1987 it means that {{MP}} has to take place some time in 1981, 1982 or 1983'''

{{MP}}: ''the desk of Mustrum Ridcully, the new Archchancellor of Unseen University''
{{MP}}: ''And yet, at the time, it had seemed a really good idea to elect an Archchancellor who hadn’t set foot in the University in forty years. There had been so much in-fighting between the various orders of wizardry in recent years that, just for once, the senior wizards had agreed that what the University needed was a period of stability, so that they could get on with their scheming and intriguing in peace and quiet for a few months. A search of the records turned up Ridcully the Brown who, after becoming a Seventh Level mage at the incredibly young age of twenty-seven, had quit the University in order to look after his family’s estates deep in the country.''

'''We can now also accurately place {{RM}} in either 1981, 82 or 83 as it takes place in the same year as {{MP}}'''

{{MP}}: ''"Windle Poons, who was one hundred and thirty years old"''
{{RM}}: ''"He was one hundred and thirty"'' (on windle poons age)

-[[User:WiktorReads|WiktorReads]] 2021-03-31