Talk:Book:The Discworld Mapp - Revision history

Jennyaxe: /* Scales and Things */

2017-07-08T11:13:23Z

Scales and Things

← Older revision		Revision as of 11:13, 8 July 2017
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	In {{T5E}}, we are told, in a discourse on expanding the Clacks, that the distance from Ankh-Morpork to Genua is four thousand miles.		In {{T5E}}, we are told, in a discourse on expanding the Clacks, that the distance from Ankh-Morpork to Genua is four thousand miles.
	On the other hand, in {{GP}}, we are told that it's two thousand miles. If we go by that book, the distances in the calculations below should be halved. [[User:Jennyaxe\|Jennyaxe]] ([[User talk:Jennyaxe\|talk]]) 11:12, 8 July 2017 (UTC)
			: On the other hand, in {{GP}}, we are told that it's two thousand miles. If we go by that book, the distances in the calculations below should be halved. [[User:Jennyaxe\|Jennyaxe]] ([[User talk:Jennyaxe\|talk]]) 11:12, 8 July 2017 (UTC)

	Sticking with imperial units, when these two distances are compared on the Mappe, the diameter of the disc on the Mappe is 25 inches. The distance between A-M and Genua is 8 inches.		Sticking with imperial units, when these two distances are compared on the Mappe, the diameter of the disc on the Mappe is 25 inches. The distance between A-M and Genua is 8 inches.

Jennyaxe at 11:12, 8 July 2017

2017-07-08T11:12:28Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 11:12, 8 July 2017
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	In {{T5E}}, we are told, in a discourse on expanding the Clacks, that the distance from Ankh-Morpork to Genua is four thousand miles.		In {{T5E}}, we are told, in a discourse on expanding the Clacks, that the distance from Ankh-Morpork to Genua is four thousand miles.
	On the other hand, in {{GP}}, we are told that it's two thousand miles. If we go by that book, the distances in the calculations below should be halved.		On the other hand, in {{GP}}, we are told that it's two thousand miles. If we go by that book, the distances in the calculations below should be halved. [[User:Jennyaxe\|Jennyaxe]] ([[User talk:Jennyaxe\|talk]]) 11:12, 8 July 2017 (UTC)

	Sticking with imperial units, when these two distances are compared on the Mappe, the diameter of the disc on the Mappe is 25 inches. The distance between A-M and Genua is 8 inches.		Sticking with imperial units, when these two distances are compared on the Mappe, the diameter of the disc on the Mappe is 25 inches. The distance between A-M and Genua is 8 inches.

	On the basis of A-M - Genua = 8", 1 inch on the Mappe therefore equals 500 miles (or 250 miles, per {{GP}}.		On the basis of A-M - Genua = 8", 1 inch on the Mappe therefore equals 500 miles (or 250 miles, per {{GP}} [[User:Jennyaxe\|Jennyaxe]] ([[User talk:Jennyaxe\|talk]]) 11:12, 8 July 2017 (UTC)).

	But if this scale - one inch = 500 miles - is applied to the Discworld as a whole, then it becomes 12,500 miles in diameter ({{GP}}: 25,000 miles).		But if this scale - one inch = 500 miles - is applied to the Discworld as a whole, then it becomes 12,500 miles in diameter ({{GP}}: 25,000 miles).
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	There is a bit of a discrepancy here of an order of ±20 - 25%.		There is a bit of a discrepancy here of an order of ±20 - 25%.

	Also, if Lancre is said to be five hundred miles away from the big city, this should be less than an inch on the Mappe - even allowing for the hazy location of Lancre on the Mappe. In fact, a generously measured distance (linking A-M to the "29" that identifies Leaping Mountain) is 2" - which matches the {{GP}} distance to Genua, not the {{T5E}} one.		Also, if Lancre is said to be five hundred miles away from the big city, this should be less than an inch on the Mappe - even allowing for the hazy location of Lancre on the Mappe. In fact, a generously measured distance (linking A-M to the "29" that identifies Leaping Mountain) is 2" (which matches the {{GP}} distance to Genua, not the {{T5E}} one [[User:Jennyaxe\|Jennyaxe]] ([[User talk:Jennyaxe\|talk]]) 11:12, 8 July 2017 (UTC)).

	Conclusion: the Mappe makes the Central Continent too short on its Widdershins-Turnwise axis, and too long on its Hubwards-Rimwards axis? (or vice-versa). This might support the contention that the Central Continent takes up too much space, and Klatch/Howondaland too little...--[[User:AgProv\|AgProv]] 22:21, 5 January 2011 (CET)		Conclusion: the Mappe makes the Central Continent too short on its Widdershins-Turnwise axis, and too long on its Hubwards-Rimwards axis? (or vice-versa). This might support the contention that the Central Continent takes up too much space, and Klatch/Howondaland too little...--[[User:AgProv\|AgProv]] 22:21, 5 January 2011 (CET)

Jennyaxe: /* Scales and Things */

2017-07-08T11:09:10Z

Scales and Things

Old Dickens: Genua's not such a problem

2013-10-07T14:42:45Z

Genua's not such a problem

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:42, 7 October 2013
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	==Scales and Things==		==Scales and Things==

	We are told as a base datum that the diameter of the Disc is 10,000 miles from edge to edge.		We are told as a base datum that the diameter of the Disc is 10,000 miles from edge to edge.

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	Also, if Lancre is said to be five hundred miles away from the big city, this should be less than an inch on the Mappe - even allowing for the hazy location of Lancre on the Mappe. In fact, a generously measured distance (linking A-M to the "29" that identifies Leaping Mountain) is 2".		Also, if Lancre is said to be five hundred miles away from the big city, this should be less than an inch on the Mappe - even allowing for the hazy location of Lancre on the Mappe. In fact, a generously measured distance (linking A-M to the "29" that identifies Leaping Mountain) is 2".


	Conclusion: the Mappe makes the Central Continent too short on its Widdershins-Turnwise axis, and too long on its Hubwards-Rimwards axis? (or vice-versa). This might support the contention that the Central Continent takes up too much space, and Klatch/Howondaland too little...--[[User:AgProv\|AgProv]] 22:21, 5 January 2011 (CET)		Conclusion: the Mappe makes the Central Continent too short on its Widdershins-Turnwise axis, and too long on its Hubwards-Rimwards axis? (or vice-versa). This might support the contention that the Central Continent takes up too much space, and Klatch/Howondaland too little...--[[User:AgProv\|AgProv]] 22:21, 5 January 2011 (CET)

			Given that both these are canonical distances, the only conclusion that can be drawn is that the Mappe is out of scale, inconsistent, and disproportionate.

	~~Given~~ that ~~both these are canonical distances~~, the ~~only conclusion that can be drawn is that~~ the ~~Mappe is out of scale~~, ~~inconsistent~~, ~~and disproportionate.~~		:The discrepancy in the Genua trip doesn't seem that bad, considering the difference between "as the crow (or broomstick) flies" and surface travel over rough country. Crows and broomsticks will also suffer some windage. I think Lamcre-to-Genua was also described as 3000 miles, but both figures could be considered round-number estimates. --[[User:Old Dickens\|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens\|talk]]) 14:42, 7 October 2013 (GMT)

AgProv: /* Speed and Distance Covered */ extra fact

2013-01-09T17:33:44Z

Speed and Distance Covered: extra fact

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:33, 9 January 2013
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	Wikipedia tells us the daily distance covered by even the best stagecoaches was only 70-120 miles per day. This varied according to factors like weather, quality of road, and severity of climb. The 120 mpd figure is in fact at the high end of the scale because it was so difficult to attain given the limiting factors (and no horse is going to be at its best after 18 hours in the traces) - it took the better roads of the late 1700's and 1800's to get there, and even then this was a one-off record for a light mail coach doing the run between London and Bristol.		Wikipedia tells us the daily distance covered by even the best stagecoaches was only 70-120 miles per day. This varied according to factors like weather, quality of road, and severity of climb. The 120 mpd figure is in fact at the high end of the scale because it was so difficult to attain given the limiting factors (and no horse is going to be at its best after 18 hours in the traces) - it took the better roads of the late 1700's and 1800's to get there, and even then this was a one-off record for a light mail coach doing the run between London and Bristol.

	On the Discworld it is logical to propose that the very same horse-drawn coach built to parellel technology standards and drawn by perfectly recognisable equines, and subject to the same limiting factors, would attain the same sort of speeds and performances. In {{T!}}, recall Vimes' trip to Koom Valley in the Ramkin family coaches: Willikins has never really sustained speeds of over 11mph before: this suggests 8-10mph is a reasonable speed. Therefore that figure of 70 miles per day, representing a total of ten hours at 7mph (not allowing for relief stops, changes of horse, slow progress on bad roads, which might make the total journey time far longer) does not seem too bad. Wikipedia also tells us that with halts and stops, a typical coach in England could look forward to a travelling day of 16-22 hours depending on urgency - but British roads prior to Macadam were legendarily awful.		On the Discworld it is logical to propose that the very same horse-drawn coach built to parellel technology standards and drawn by perfectly recognisable equines, and subject to the same limiting factors, would attain the same sort of speeds and performances. In {{T!}}, recall Vimes' trip to Koom Valley in the Ramkin family coaches: Willikins has never really sustained speeds of over 11mph before: this suggests 8-10mph is a reasonable speed. (This supports the idea that a slow horse-bus drawn by an old jade not in much of a hurry can cover the route to Sto Lat in 3-4 hours). Therefore that figure of 70 miles per day, representing a total of ten hours at 7mph (not allowing for relief stops, changes of horse, slow progress on bad roads, which might make the total journey time far longer) does not seem too bad. Wikipedia also tells us that with halts and stops, a typical coach in England could look forward to a travelling day of 16-22 hours depending on urgency - but British roads prior to Macadam were legendarily awful.

	Therefore, that journey to Genua from Ankh-Morpork. In the context of the race between Moist in a coach versus the clacks. how long would it have taken a coach and is this consistent with the 4,000 miles distance we are quoted? By my reckoning = 57 days at 70 miles per day; (that 57 again) but only 40 at 100mpd. Must check {{GP}}. If any other times are quoted, what implications are there for distances cited on the Mappe? --[[User:AgProv\|AgProv]] 17:10, 6 January 2011 (CET)		Therefore, that journey to Genua from Ankh-Morpork. In the context of the race between Moist in a coach versus the clacks. how long would it have taken a coach and is this consistent with the 4,000 miles distance we are quoted? By my reckoning = 57 days at 70 miles per day; (that 57 again) but only 40 at 100mpd. Must check {{GP}}. If any other times are quoted, what implications are there for distances cited on the Mappe? --[[User:AgProv\|AgProv]] 17:10, 6 January 2011 (CET)

Old Dickens: Old Dickens moved page Book talk:The Discworld Mapp to Talk:Book:The Discworld Mapp without leaving a redirect

2012-12-26T18:48:51Z

Old Dickens moved page Book talk:The Discworld Mapp to Talk:Book:The Discworld Mapp without leaving a redirect

← Older revision	Revision as of 18:48, 26 December 2012
(No difference)

Old Dickens: 20 revisions: getting the hang of it

2012-12-26T17:49:44Z

20 revisions: getting the hang of it

← Older revision	Revision as of 17:49, 26 December 2012
(No difference)

AgProv: Glaring error corrected

2012-06-24T09:57:43Z

Glaring error corrected

← Older revision		Revision as of 09:57, 24 June 2012
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	Wikipedia tells us the daily distance covered by even the best stagecoaches was only 70-120 miles per day. This varied according to factors like weather, quality of road, and severity of climb. The 120 mpd figure is in fact at the high end of the scale because it was so difficult to attain given the limiting factors (and no horse is going to be at its best after 18 hours in the traces) - it took the better roads of the late 1700's and 1800's to get there, and even then this was a one-off record for a light mail coach doing the run between London and Bristol.		Wikipedia tells us the daily distance covered by even the best stagecoaches was only 70-120 miles per day. This varied according to factors like weather, quality of road, and severity of climb. The 120 mpd figure is in fact at the high end of the scale because it was so difficult to attain given the limiting factors (and no horse is going to be at its best after 18 hours in the traces) - it took the better roads of the late 1700's and 1800's to get there, and even then this was a one-off record for a light mail coach doing the run between London and Bristol.

	On the Discworld it is logical to propose that the very same horse-drawn coach built to parellel technology standards and drawn by perfectly recognisable equines, and subject to the same limiting factors, would attain the same sort of speeds and performances. In {{T!}}, recall Vimes' trip to Koom Valley in the Ramkin family coaches: Willikins has never really sustained speeds of over 11mph before: this suggests 8-10mph is a reasonable speed. Therefore that figure of 70 miles per day, representing a total of ~~nine~~ hours at 7mph (not allowing for relief stops, changes of horse, slow progress on bad roads, which might make the total journey time far longer) does not seem too bad. Wikipedia also tells us that with halts and stops, a typical coach in England could look forward to a travelling day of 16-22 hours depending on urgency - but British roads prior to Macadam were legendarily awful.		On the Discworld it is logical to propose that the very same horse-drawn coach built to parellel technology standards and drawn by perfectly recognisable equines, and subject to the same limiting factors, would attain the same sort of speeds and performances. In {{T!}}, recall Vimes' trip to Koom Valley in the Ramkin family coaches: Willikins has never really sustained speeds of over 11mph before: this suggests 8-10mph is a reasonable speed. Therefore that figure of 70 miles per day, representing a total of ten hours at 7mph (not allowing for relief stops, changes of horse, slow progress on bad roads, which might make the total journey time far longer) does not seem too bad. Wikipedia also tells us that with halts and stops, a typical coach in England could look forward to a travelling day of 16-22 hours depending on urgency - but British roads prior to Macadam were legendarily awful.

	Therefore, that journey to Genua from Ankh-Morpork. In the context of the race between Moist in a coach versus the clacks. how long would it have taken a coach and is this consistent with the 4,000 miles distance we are quoted? By my reckoning = 57 days at 70 miles per day; (that 57 again) but only 40 at 100mpd. Must check {{GP}}. If any other times are quoted, what implications are there for distances cited on the Mappe? --[[User:AgProv\|AgProv]] 17:10, 6 January 2011 (CET)		Therefore, that journey to Genua from Ankh-Morpork. In the context of the race between Moist in a coach versus the clacks. how long would it have taken a coach and is this consistent with the 4,000 miles distance we are quoted? By my reckoning = 57 days at 70 miles per day; (that 57 again) but only 40 at 100mpd. Must check {{GP}}. If any other times are quoted, what implications are there for distances cited on the Mappe? --[[User:AgProv\|AgProv]] 17:10, 6 January 2011 (CET)

AgProv: /* All the "joke countries" that Terry created as one-shots, back in the days of the fourth book in the series when the title-page disclaimer was "This book has no map. If this bothers you, feel free to go and draw one of your own" ({{S}}). */

2012-06-14T20:43:41Z

All the "joke countries" that Terry created as one-shots, back in the days of the fourth book in the series when the title-page disclaimer was "This book has no map. If this bothers you, feel free to go and draw one of your own" ({{S}}).

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:43, 14 June 2012
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	So of course, once named, they now exist, and have to be found places on the Mappe, despite the fact that Rehigreed, Vanglemesht, Chirm, Orohai, Ymitury, Kythia and so on, are hardly likely to be mentioned again and are just occupying valuable real estate that could perhaps better be taken up by other nations that have played a more active part in the canon. As time allows I've been trying to do a redraft - presumptuous, me, but I've kept it strictly canonical - which I hope addresses these problems. --[[User:AgProv\|AgProv]] 01:10, 12 November 2010 (CET)		So of course, once named, they now exist, and have to be found places on the Mappe, despite the fact that Rehigreed, Vanglemesht, Chirm, Orohai, Ymitury, Kythia and so on, are hardly likely to be mentioned again and are just occupying valuable real estate that could perhaps better be taken up by other nations that have played a more active part in the canon. As time allows I've been trying to do a redraft - presumptuous, me, but I've kept it strictly canonical - which I hope addresses these problems. --[[User:AgProv\|AgProv]] 01:10, 12 November 2010 (CET)

			Great drats. In the current {{TWOP}}, there is a very definite and clear mention that [[Ymitury]] exists in the "modern" age and cannot be dismissed easily.[[User:AgProv\|AgProv]] 22:43, 14 June 2012 (CEST)

	== The Rehigreed Problem ==		== The Rehigreed Problem ==

AgProv: /* All the "joke countries" that Terry created as one-shots, back in the days when the title-page disclaimer was "This book has no map. If this bothers you, feel free to go and draw one of your own". */

2011-07-09T17:20:16Z

All the "joke countries" that Terry created as one-shots, back in the days when the title-page disclaimer was "This book has no map. If this bothers you, feel free to go and draw one of your own".

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:20, 9 July 2011
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	== All the "joke countries" that Terry created as one-shots, back in the days when the title-page disclaimer was "This book has no map. If this bothers you, feel free to go and draw one of your own". ==		== All the "joke countries" that Terry created as one-shots, back in the days of the fourth book in the series when the title-page disclaimer was "This book has no map. If this bothers you, feel free to go and draw one of your own" ({{S}}). ==


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	So of course, once named, they now exist, and have to be found places on the Mappe, despite the fact that Rehigreed, Vanglemesht, Chirm, Orohai, Ymitury, Kythia and so on, are hardly likely to be mentioned again and are just occupying valuable real estate that could perhaps better be taken up by other nations that have played a more active part in the canon. As time allows I've been trying to do a redraft - presumptuous, me, but I've kept it strictly canonical - which I hope addresses these problems. --[[User:AgProv\|AgProv]] 01:10, 12 November 2010 (CET)		So of course, once named, they now exist, and have to be found places on the Mappe, despite the fact that Rehigreed, Vanglemesht, Chirm, Orohai, Ymitury, Kythia and so on, are hardly likely to be mentioned again and are just occupying valuable real estate that could perhaps better be taken up by other nations that have played a more active part in the canon. As time allows I've been trying to do a redraft - presumptuous, me, but I've kept it strictly canonical - which I hope addresses these problems. --[[User:AgProv\|AgProv]] 01:10, 12 November 2010 (CET)



	== The Rehigreed Problem ==		== The Rehigreed Problem ==

← Older revision		Revision as of 11:09, 8 July 2017
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	In {{T5E}}, we are told, in a discourse on expanding the Clacks, that the distance from Ankh-Morpork to Genua is four thousand miles.		In {{T5E}}, we are told, in a discourse on expanding the Clacks, that the distance from Ankh-Morpork to Genua is four thousand miles.
			On the other hand, in {{GP}}, we are told that it's two thousand miles. If we go by that book, the distances in the calculations below should be halved.

	Sticking with imperial units, when these two distances are compared on the Mappe, the diameter of the disc on the Mappe is 25 inches. The distance between A-M and Genua is 8 inches.		Sticking with imperial units, when these two distances are compared on the Mappe, the diameter of the disc on the Mappe is 25 inches. The distance between A-M and Genua is 8 inches.

	On the basis of A-M - Genua = 8", 1 inch on the Mappe therefore equals 500 miles.		On the basis of A-M - Genua = 8", 1 inch on the Mappe therefore equals 500 miles (or 250 miles, per {{GP}}.

	But if this scale - one inch = 500 miles - is applied to the Discworld as a whole, then it becomes 12,500 miles in diameter.		But if this scale - one inch = 500 miles - is applied to the Discworld as a whole, then it becomes 12,500 miles in diameter ({{GP}}: 25,000 miles).

	On the basis of the diameter of the Disc being 10,000 miles across and 25" on the Mappe, 1 inch on the Mappe therefore equals 400 miles. And those 8 inches ~~seperating~~ A-M from Genua then represent 3,200 miles.		On the basis of the diameter of the Disc being 10,000 miles across and 25" on the Mappe, 1 inch on the Mappe therefore equals 400 miles. And those 8 inches separating A-M from Genua then represent 3,200 miles.

	There is a bit of a discrepancy here of an order of ±20 - 25%.		There is a bit of a discrepancy here of an order of ±20 - 25%.

	Also, if Lancre is said to be five hundred miles away from the big city, this should be less than an inch on the Mappe - even allowing for the hazy location of Lancre on the Mappe. In fact, a generously measured distance (linking A-M to the "29" that identifies Leaping Mountain) is 2".		Also, if Lancre is said to be five hundred miles away from the big city, this should be less than an inch on the Mappe - even allowing for the hazy location of Lancre on the Mappe. In fact, a generously measured distance (linking A-M to the "29" that identifies Leaping Mountain) is 2" - which matches the {{GP}} distance to Genua, not the {{T5E}} one.

	Conclusion: the Mappe makes the Central Continent too short on its Widdershins-Turnwise axis, and too long on its Hubwards-Rimwards axis? (or vice-versa). This might support the contention that the Central Continent takes up too much space, and Klatch/Howondaland too little...--[[User:AgProv\|AgProv]] 22:21, 5 January 2011 (CET)		Conclusion: the Mappe makes the Central Continent too short on its Widdershins-Turnwise axis, and too long on its Hubwards-Rimwards axis? (or vice-versa). This might support the contention that the Central Continent takes up too much space, and Klatch/Howondaland too little...--[[User:AgProv\|AgProv]] 22:21, 5 January 2011 (CET)
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	Given that both these are canonical distances, the only conclusion that can be drawn is that the Mappe is out of scale, inconsistent, and disproportionate.		Given that both these are canonical distances, the only conclusion that can be drawn is that the Mappe is out of scale, inconsistent, and disproportionate.

	:The discrepancy in the Genua trip doesn't seem that bad, considering the difference between "as the crow (or broomstick) flies" and surface travel over rough country. Crows and broomsticks will also suffer some windage. I think ~~Lamcre~~-to-Genua was also described as 3000 miles, but both figures could be considered round-number estimates. --[[User:Old Dickens\|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens\|talk]]) 14:42, 7 October 2013 (GMT)		:The discrepancy in the Genua trip doesn't seem that bad, considering the difference between "as the crow (or broomstick) flies" and surface travel over rough country. Crows and broomsticks will also suffer some windage. I think Lancre-to-Genua was also described as 3000 miles, but both figures could be considered round-number estimates. --[[User:Old Dickens\|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens\|talk]]) 14:42, 7 October 2013 (GMT)


	== Speed and Distance Covered ==		== Speed and Distance Covered ==