Talk:Ankh-Morpork

Where is Downtown?

In Night Watch, when talking about the Watch Houses, Knock says ...I hate to think what's happening downtown. I was wondering what is considered 'downtown'.

It is cetainly not the Dimwell Street (that is mentioned in the same conversation) or Treacle Mine Road and I would guess that it isn't Long Wall, Leastgate or Nap Hill either. So this leaves, the HQ (Isle of Gods), Chittling Street (The Shades) or Dolly Sisters areas.

The UU area, Esoteric Street down to the river (Street of Alchemist) would be my choice, though I haven't seen any mention of a Watch House in this area. Maybe it would be the whole of the Dolly Sisters and UU area.

Any ideas as to which area of Ankh-Morpork is considered 'Downtown'? --mikecook 20:00, 27 July 2006 (CEST)

I should think you'd worked that out by now, but as the geographer: isn't it bigger than a mile across? (28 sq.ft. per person?)

"Downtown" usually means "down to the water", sometimes just the old, built-up area. In either case, this would likely be the Shades, which is also where Knock could expect the most trouble. ..Old Dickens 13:25 EST 5 Sep 2006

My initial thoughts were also that it meant the Shades. The problem seems that Knock would then be talking about something that is happening only a couple of streets away. In the conversation of Knock he was talking about people throwing stones at the Dimwell Street House when he mentions downtown. This would mean there should be a Watch House there. As they themselves are in the only watch house I know of in the area (Treacle Mine), why would he talk in that way about the Shades? This is why I think it is another part of the city.

Possibly it could be the located around The Drum, Short Street, Cheapside, Baker Street, etc. There seems to be a lot of commercial activity in this area. --mikecook 00:45, 6 September 2006 (CEST)

Dimwell seems to be across the river, so also "downtown" toward the sea. However, he doesn't have to be restricted to Watch houses. Treacle Mine Road is "uptown" (just) from the whole Shades. ..Old Dickens 20:20 EST 6 Sep 2006

...More haggling over the Shades, etc. - A quote from Men At Arms: "(Gaspode) was somewhere beyond the Shades, in the network of dock basins and cattle yards..." This sounds sensible; how could commerce go on if the Shades cut off all that dockland? Even the crazier Patricians wouldn't allow it. Does the Streets of A-M show the borders you give? - Re: "uptown", have you considered elevations in A-M? The Isle of Gods is described as high ground, safe from the water table and above the worst of the smell. I suspect the turnwise bank is generally higher than the Morpork side; this is the way many cities work, the higher bank being the upper-class area, with the low-rent district down on the flood plain. - I still say one mile across is impossible. I seem to remember that it was eight miles, but I haven't found the line again. --Old Dickens 00:38, 17 September 2006 (CEST)

Haggle away my good man ;-) It is difficult to decide on what is and what isn't, possibly The Shades and the adjoining areas, all the way up to Short Street, would count as downtown.

The layout on the neighbourhoods image is exactly as shown on the Streets of A-M mapp. The Shades area is also labelled very similar but NO, it does not show the boundaries I give. Going off where the text is, the shape of the streets and the shape of the buildings (especially for the Shades) this is how I've created those boundaries.

I agree on the elevations - I have considered this as well as with working out the real size of the city. A few months back I spent a lot of time working out various possible sizes. I tried overlaying real world maps, satellite images and the such onto the A-M mapp. Once of my first attempts produced a diameter of around 5km. I can't now remember where but I'd heard the given size was 1.6km. To the bottom of it I created a 3D version of the mapp 3d-am.jpg :o) I also have scale models of some late medieval buildings and also one of Shakespeare's Globe Theatre. All these fitted on the map very nicely, the Globe theatre and Dysk fit together almost exact! This all worked to give a diameter of (approx) 1mile (1.6km).

Isn't the 1 million population for the whole of the city, which includes the areas outside of the city walls?

Alas, all this experimentation and research takes time. Once I've finished reading the last two DW books I will go on a research gathering re-read of all the Ankh-Morpork books. Some of which I haven't read since they were originally released! --mikecook 19:37, 19 September 2006 (CEST)

Ah! The Old City is very likely a square mile, as was the City of London, but I believe the city walls (such as are left) are well within the recent boundaries, as the "City" is now a small part of London. I'm expecting my own Streets in the mail soon. More to follow. --Old Dickens 21:13, 19 September 2006 (CEST)