Talk:Crueltide

Solstice-Celebration? 12-Days of Hogswatch? Hannukah?

A shot in the blue but maybe it is one forgotten, rarely celebrated or just celebrated by a certain religion/species. We have various festivities around that time of year on Roundworld, why should Discworld only have one single thing? Not to mention that Crueltide sounds suspiciously like Yuletide...--LilMaibe 17:47, 22 April 2011 (CEST)

It certainly does, but the main description of the calendar comes early in The Colour of Magic, where Crueltide is the beginning of the second half-year in Backspindlewinter or Winter Secundus. There are then 12 months again to another Hogswatch. It would appear that Hogswatch, as a popular festival with feasts and presents, somehow took over (with some pushing by Vernon Crumley and the Merchants' Guild?) and has been celebrated twice a year since then. --Old Dickens 18:09, 22 April 2011 (CEST)

It's the Tubso/Bissonomy thing again? On Roundworld a lot of formerly hallowed festivals have gone because they've been rendered obselete or simply aren't as important any more. While the Book of Common Prayer still lists Lammas and Candlemas as feast days in the English Christian calendar, who today can tell you what they were for, let alone celebrates them?--AgProv 10:23, 28 June 2011 (CEST)

Practically/literarily, once it was established that the Hogfather was responsible for the death and renewal of the year and the sun wouldn't come back without him, there needed to be a Hogswatch every winter. I guess it will remain a minor mystery down the list from the Patrician of The Colour of Magic and some other imponderables. --Old Dickens 17:23, 28 June 2011 (CEST)

This is actually explained in the Discworld Companion (at least as far back as the edition from 1997), and the roleplaying game which drew on the companion. In brief: correctly Crueltide is the first Winter festival, marking half-way through the full 800-day Disc year, and Hogswatchnight is the one at the proper end of the year. But most people just call both Hogswatch. The same is true of Small Gods’ Eve and Midsummer Eve (aka All Fallow’s). I’m going to put that explanation in the article. -- Guybrush (talk) 08:51, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

I did a search through my ebook copies of the early books, and while Hogswatch is mentioned in nearly every book from The Colour of Magic onwards, I couldn’t find any mention of Crueltide outside of the footnote in The Colour of Magic. I’ve included this as part of the updated entry here. -- Guybrush (talk) 09:31, 1 February 2024 (UTC)