Talk:Discworld Timeline 2.0

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Discworld Timeline 2.0

1. Prologue

So I think it's time to once and for all revisit the Discworld Timeline and try to fix it as it has a lot of issues with it as of now, contradicting many things stated in the novels as well as what Terry Pratchett himself has said.

Most of it was made a long time ago before the later novels came out which gives us more set dates which contradict the old timeline.

2. Fixed points in time

There are a few fixed points in time and ways to help us figure out the date of the novels.

  • The Battle of Ankh-Morpork is 1688

The Discworld Companion: "The last civil war, and execution and revelation of the personal habits of lorenzo the kind in 1688, marked the final end of any kind of monarchy in the city."

The Discworld Companion: "The Ankh-Morpork Civil war... ...this would have been 1688."

  • Feet of Clay takes place in 1987 1 year before the 300th anniversary of The battle of ankh-morpork

Feet of Clay: “Thing is, it’s the tricentre—tricera—this three-hundred-year celebration thing next year, Mr. Vimes…”... ...“Well…we’re going to recreate the Battle of Ankh-Morpork for the celebrations... ...“Er…I’m going to be King Lorenzo, sir. Er…you know…the last king, the one your…er…”... ...“And who drew the straw to play Stoneface Vimes?”

  • Havelock Vetinari Graduates from the Guild of Assassins in 1968

The Truth: "Lord Vetinari “—who graduated with full honors from the Guild of Assassins in 1968,"

  • Havelock Vetinari is the patrician in all books

The Discworld Companion: "The holder of the office throughout the Discworld Chronicles (apart from some events in night watch) is Havelock, Lord vetinari"

lspace.org/books/apf/the-colour-of-magic - Terry Pratchett: "I'm pretty certain that the same Patrician was in all the books. [...] He's clearly lost weight and got more austere. It must be the pressure... ..."I've always thought the Patrician is a party animal. Can you imagine waking up next day and remembering all those witty things you said and did, and then realising that he was listening?"

  • Havelock Vetinari Therefore Celebrates his 10 year anniversary as a patrician in Mort

Mort: "On this particular night they were scented with saltpeter, too, because it was the tenth anniversary of the accession of the Patrician"

  • Mustrum Ridcully is 72 in Soul Music and 67 in Moving Pictures

Moving Pictures: "the desk of Mustrum Ridcully, the new Archchancellor of Unseen University... ...And yet, at the time, it had seemed a really good idea to elect an Archchancellor who hadn’t set foot in the University in forty years. There had been so much in-fighting between the various orders of wizardry in recent years that, just for once, the senior wizards had agreed that what the University needed was a period of stability, so that they could get on with their scheming and intriguing in peace and quiet for a few months. A search of the records turned up Ridcully the Brown who, after becoming a Seventh Level mage at the incredibly young age of twenty-seven, had quit the University in order to look after his family’s estates deep in the country."

Soul Music: The Dean: He sighed. He was seventytwo... ...Dean: Your trouble, Archchancellor, is that you don’t understand people of our age!” “What…you mean seven months older than me?” said Ridcully.

  • The Glorious Revolution is 25 years before Men at Arms

Men at Arms: "Vimes said, I’m retiring from the Watch tomorrow. Twenty-five years on the streets"

  • The bank crash of 88, 93 and 98 happened before Making Money

Making Money: "We have been badly buffeted in recent years. The crash of 88, the crash of 93, the crash of 98…"

3. Old Timeline

The old timeline is situated at Discworld Timeline and is based of this even older timeline on lspace.org https://www.lspace.org/books/timeline/dw-timeline-intro.html

So how does the old timeline fit in with the Fixed points in time? well it's got a couple of issues.

  • It breaks the rule that Making Money has to be some time after the crash of 98.
  • It breaks the rule that the Glorious Revolution is 25 years before Men at Arms.
  • It breaks the rule that Ridcully is 67 in Moving pictures, as well as breaks the 5 year timegap between Moving Pictures and Soul Music.
  • It breaks the rule that the Patrician is celebrating his 10 year anniversary in Mort as it assumes that the patrician in Mort is Snapcase.

As you can see there are quite a lot of issues with the current old timeline. And my hope is to try and fix those issues with a timeline that can fit as many of the Fixed points in time as possible.

There are also several other issues with the timeline, for instance Carpe Jugulum is set in the Century of the Anchovy despite stating that it's in the Century of the Fruitbat in the novel.

Carpe Jugulum: "Are we not in a unique position as we reach the end of the Century of the Fruitbat?"

And the fact that several novels in the timeline were placed based upon complete guesses like x novel probably takes place 2 years after y novel because that seems like a good idea.

4. Discworld Timeline 2.0 - A new beginning.

First we want to create a set novel we can base the others around, for this the best is the novel that we know exactly when it takes place. Feet of Clay.

4.1 Early Watch novels

Feet of Clay Is 1 year before the 300th anniversary of the battle of ankh-morpork. The Discworld Companion companion details this very well.

Feet of Clay: “Thing is, it’s the tricentre—tricera—this three-hundred-year celebration thing next year, Mr. Vimes…”... ...“Well…we’re going to recreate the Battle of Ankh-Morpork for the celebrations... ...“Er…I’m going to be King Lorenzo, sir. Er…you know…the last king, the one your…er…”... ...“And who drew the straw to play Stoneface Vimes?”

The Discworld Companion: "The last civil war, and execution and revelation of the personal habits of lorenzo the kind in 1688, marked the final end of any kind of monarchy in the city."

The Discworld Companion: "The Ankh-Morpork Civil war... ...this would have been 1688."

So Feet of Clay is 1987 and we can easily plot out Guards! Guards! in 1985 and Men at Arms in 1986

Feet of Clay: "Carrot paused. It said a lot about Captain Carrot that, even after almost two years in Ankh-Morpork"

Feet of Clay: "But he hasn’t touched a drop all year!” said Carrot, giving the recumbent Vimes a shake. “He goes to meetings about it and everything!"

We can now place the Glorious revolution 25 years before Men at Arms which would be 1961

Men at Arms: "Vimes said, I’m retiring from the Watch tomorrow. Twenty-five years on the streets"

Soul Music takes place some time between Men at Arms and Feet of Clay, Detritus takes place in the watch in Men at Arms, is a Constable in Soul Music, and Sergeant in Feet of Clay. This means that Soul Music has to take place ether 1986 or 1987

Mort has to take place some time 16 or more years before Soul Music as Susan is 16 years old in Soul Music. It also has to take place some time after The Color of Magic and The Light Fantastic as the librarian is ape-shaped

Mort: “Oook.”

Soul Music: "“How old are you?” “Sixteen.”

Moving Pictures takes place 5 years before Soul Music as Ridcully is 67 in Moving Pictures and 72 in Soul Music

Moving Pictures: "the desk of Mustrum Ridcully, the new Archchancellor of Unseen University... ...And yet, at the time, it had seemed a really good idea to elect an Archchancellor who hadn’t set foot in the University in forty years. There had been so much in-fighting between the various orders of wizardry in recent years that, just for once, the senior wizards had agreed that what the University needed was a period of stability, so that they could get on with their scheming and intriguing in peace and quiet for a few months. A search of the records turned up Ridcully the Brown who, after becoming a Seventh Level mage at the incredibly young age of twenty-seven, had quit the University in order to look after his family’s estates deep in the country."

Soul Music: The Dean: He sighed. He was seventytwo... ...Dean: Your trouble, Archchancellor, is that you don’t understand people of our age!” “What…you mean seven months older than me?” said Ridcully.

Reaper Man takes place at the same time as Moving Pictures

Moving Pictures: "Windle Poons, who was one hundred and thirty years old"

Reaper Man: "He was one hundred and thirty" (on windle poons age)

Small Gods takes place in the same year as Reaper Man

Reaper Man: "Windle poons-born in the year of the Significant Triangle... ... died in the year of the Notional Serpent in the Century of the Fruitbat"

Small Gods: "It was the Year of the Notional Serpent, or two hundred years after the Declaration of the Prophet Abbys."

Small Gods also takes place 100 years before Reaper Man at the same time, in the year of the notional serpent in the Century of the Three Lice

Thief of Time: "The history of the country of Ephebe was puzzling, for example. Either its famous philosophers lived for a very long time, or inherited their names, or extra bits had been stitched into history there. The history of Omnia was a mess. Two centuries had been folded into one, by the look of it, and it was only because of the mind-set of the Omnians, whose religion mixed the past and future with the present in any case, that it could possibly have passed unnoticed."

Thief of Time: THE BOOK OF TOBRUN HAS NOT BEEN CONSIDERED OFFICIAL CHURCH DOGMA FOR A HUNDRED YEARS. THE PROPHET BRUTHA REVEALED THAT THE WHOLE CHAPTER WAS A METAPHOR FOR A POWER STRUGGLE WITHIN THE EARLY CHURCH. IT IS NOT INCLUDED IN THE REVISED VERSION OF THE BOOK OF OM, AS DETERMINED BY THE CONVOCATION OF EE.

Now comes the Patrician. Vetinari needs to have been the Patrician for 10 years before Mort, and we know that Snapcase is the Patrician at the end of Night Watch. This means that we need to have 10 years between Mort and The Glorious Revolution. This would mean that Mort has to be placed in 1971, and Soul Music 16 years later in 1987. This also means that The color of magic and The Light Fantastic has to be placed sometime between 1961 and 1971.

But Vetinari graduated from the assassins guild in 1968 how does that fit with him becoming patrician in 1961? Well to solve this we have to assume that Snapcase had a very short reign followed by Vetinari taking over, then 7 years later Vetinari gets his post-grad diploma while Patrician, something the Guild of Assassins is known to do.

Men at Arms: "That afternoon he (Edward) sold what remained of the d’Eath estates, and enrolled again at the Guild school. For the post-graduate course"

The current timeline looks like this

Century of the Three Lice

  • 1882 - Small Gods

Century of the Fruitbat

  • 1961 - The Glorious Revolution (Night Watch)
  • 1961 ~~ 1971 - The Color of Magic, Light Fantastic
  • 1971 - Mort
  • 1982 - Moving Pictures, Reaper Man, Small Gods
  • 1985 - Guards! Guards!, Theatre of Cruelty
  • 1986 - Men at Arms
  • 1987 - Feet of Clay, Soul Music

4.2 Young Sam Vimes is the Key

Now Young Sam Vimes is key to solving most of the timeline, we get to know his age in several novels which helps us to accurately place the others.

The Truth Takes place 1~37 months before Night Watch. it's after the first Clacks company was founded 25~37 months before Night Watch (see 4.3 Adding Moist) and The Ankh-Morpork Times appears in Night Watch

The Truth: "Dibbler sighed. “I missed out on the semaphore. Just didn’t see it coming. Next thing you know, everyone’s got a clacks company. Big money... ...“And there’s this clacks from Lancre that came in when you’d gone home,” said the dwarf. “That’ll cost us another fifty pence for the messenger.

Jingo Takes place "a few months" before The Fifth Elephant as Buggy Swires Joined the watch "a few months" before The Fifth Elephant and is in the watch in Jingo

Jingo: *“That’s Probationary Constable Buggy Swires, sir. He likes to get a good view.”*

The Fifth Elephant: "Constable Swires had been on the force only for a few months, but news had gone around and already he inspired respect, or at least the bladder-trembling terror that can pass for respect on these occasions"

The Fifth Elephant Takes place 1~9 months before Night Watch as Sybil Ramkin is pregnant with Young Sam Vimes

Young Sam Vimes is born in Night Watch

Night Watch: "Sybil was sitting up. He saw, through the mist of exhaustion, that she was holding something wrapped in a shawl. “He’s called Sam, Sam,” she said. “And no argument.”"

Thief of Time Takes place at the same time/before Night Watch as the same storm occurs in both.

Night Watch: "The lightning struck. Windows blew out and iron gutters melted. Roofs lifted into the air and settled again. Buildings shook. But this storm had been blowing in from far across the plains, pushing the natural background magic ahead of it. It dumped it now, all in one go. They said afterward that the bolt of lightning hit a clockmaker’s shop in the Street of Cunning Artificers, stopping all the clocks at that instant."

Where's My Cow? Takes place 13 months after Night Watch as Young Sam Vimes is 1 year old and the event is mentioned in Thud! which is 14 months after Night Watch

Where's My Cow?: "to read to Young Sam, who was one year old."

Thud!: "after a trying day, he’d tried the Vimes street version"

Thud! Takes place 14 months after Night Watch and Interesting Times as Young Sam Vimes is 14 Months old

Thud!: "fourteen-month-old baby"'

Snuff Takes place 6 years after Night Watch and Interesting Times as Young Sam Vimes is 6 years old

Snuff: "an absolute hoot for a boy just turned six... ...the whole process being a matter of huge entertainment to a boy of six"

Raising Steam Takes place 8 years after The Fifth Elephant which would be about 7~8 years after Night Watch

Raising Steam: "The King coughed before saying to Vimes, “I remember Sergeant Littlebottom when we met by the Scone of Stone eight years ago. Oh, yes, I remember her.”

4.3 Adding Moist Von Lipwig

Going Postal Takes place 3 almost 4 years from the invention of the first clacks company

Going Postal: "He hadn’t seen a clacks until three years ago, when the first company was founded... ...Sane Alex and Mad Al were old men in the clacks business; they’d been in it for almost four years."

The Fifth Elephant: "The new guild must be coining money. Even from here he could see the scaffolding, as workers feverishly attached still more gantries and paddles to the main tower." "It had all happened so fast. Who’d have believed it?" "And it had caught on as fast as every other craze did in the big city."

Going Postal also have to take place some time before Thud! as Moist von Lipwigs stamp invention is mentioned.

Thud!: Remember the cabbage-scented stamp last month?... ...Oh yes, two stamps. They were very nearly identical. They both showed Koom Valley, a rocky area ringed by mountains. They both showed the battle. But in one, little figures of trolls were pursuing dwarfs from right to left, and in the other, dwarfs were chasing trolls from left to right

So we can't place going postal later than 14 months after Night Watch which means that the first clacks company would have to have been created sometime 39~51 months before Thud! or 25~37 months before Night Watch, (Remember that i'm using Discworld years which are 13 months each.)

Going Postal is also the first novel to mention being in the Century of The Anchovy, The Fifth Elephant and The Truth are detailed as being in the Century of the Fruitbat.

Going Postal: "not at all what we need in the Century of the Anchovy... ...there’s the Times and the Pseudopolis Herald"

The Fifth Elephant: "you’d hardly think you were in the Century of the Fruitbat."

The Truth: “Yes, Dr. Dinwiddie. Er…the Century of the Fruitbat is nearly over, sir... ...the Century of the Fruitbat,” said the Bursar. “We…that’s the one we’re just about to leave, sir.”

4.4 Creating a timeline with 4.2 and 4.3

Since Making Money is situated at earliest in 1998 this means that Going Postal cannot be earlier than 1997. And since Going Postal has to be sometime before Thud! we know that Thud! can't be earlier than 1997 either.

We also know that The Glorious Revolution cannot take place earlier than 1958 as that is 39 years before Thud! at earliest possible date. and they would probably say more'n 40 or 40 years ago if that was the case. We also know that Thud! cannot take place later than 2000 as that would be 39 years after The Glorious Revolution in 1961.

Thud!: Barricades, sir, Colon prompted. “More’n thirty years ago?” Vimes gave a curt nod. Oh yes, he remembered the Glorious Revolution

For Going Postal to then take place in The Century of The Anchovy but before Thud! we can place it at the year of 2000 since that is the latest date at which we can place Thud!

This means our current timeline looks like this

Century of the Three Lice

  • 1882 - Small Gods

Century of the Fruitbat

  • 1961 - The Glorious Revolution (Night Watch)
  • 1961 ~~ 1971 - The Color of Magic, Light Fantastic
  • 1971 - Mort
  • 1982 - Moving Pictures, Reaper Man, Small Gods
  • 1985 - Guards! Guards!, Theatre of Cruelty
  • 1986 - Men at Arms
  • 1987 - Feet of Clay, Soul Music
  • 1997/8/9 - Jingo, The Truth
  • 1998/9 - The Fifth Elephant
  • 1999 - Thief of Time, Night Watch

Century of the Anchovy

  • 2000 - Going Postal, Where's My Cow?, Thud!
  • 2001 - Making Money
  • 2005 - Snuff
  • 2006/7 - Raising Steam

4.5 Tiffany Aching

Since we now have a date for Raising Steam we can somewhat accurately place the Tiffany Aching Novels. The Shepherd's Crown details that the railway is in it's infancy, this places The Shepherd's Crown sometime close after or during Raising Steam

The Shepherd's Crown: "The railway was still in its infancy – and already there were these arches"... ...‘Last train into Twoshirts is that... ...she thought: Train? It’s big. It’s iron, and we don’t know about it. And what we don’t know about it could get us killed... ...A belch of smoke from a train steaming over the arches almost enveloped both the dwarf and Geoffrey... ...This fell into a very handy pause as an almighty roar announced another train shooting overhead, smoke and smut billowing in the air"

With this in mind we can place The Shepherd's Crown in 2006/7/8 I Shall Wear Midnight is one to two years before The Shepherd's Crown so it takes place some time 2004/5/6/7

The Shepherd's Crown: "He recognized her immediately – he had had a bad moment when she’d called in a year or two back and let slip she knew the Feegles." (Dave the broomstick repair man on the event in ISWM when Tiffany was 15)

Wintersmith is 3 years before I Shall Wear Midnight so it takes place sometime 2001/2/3/4

I Shall Wear Midnight: You’re not sixteen yet and I see you running around nursing people and bandaging people and who knows what chores... ...some seven years ago you took an iron skillet and went into some sort of fairyland"

Wintersmith: Tiffany gave up and sighed. 'I’m almost thirteen,' she said. 'I can look after myself.'" and "It was her birthday....Thirteen years old.

This also fits in with Wintersmith having to take place sometime after The Truth as it mentions the newspaper. and probably sometime after Going Postal as it mentions Groat as Assistant Postmaster

Wintersmith: "This was reported in the newspapers, and shortly afterward a widow wrote to him saying how much she admired a man who really understood about hygiene. They later were seen walking together, so it’s an ill wind, as they say…"

Wintersmith: "Assistant Postmaster Groat did not believe in doctors. They made you ill, he thought. So he put sulfur in his socks every morning and he was proud to say that he had never had a day’s illness in his life. This may have been because not many people cared to come very close to him, because of the smell. Something did, though. A gale roared into his post office when he was opening the door one morning and blew his socks clean off. And no one heard the Wintersmith say: “Sulfur enough to make a man!”

A Hat Full of Sky is 1 year before Wintersmith so it takes place sometime 2000/1/2/3

A Hat Full of Sky: "Anyway, she was eleven now, and had a feeling that after a certain age you shouldn’t slide down holes in the ground to talk to little men."

The Wee Free Men is 2 years before A Hat Full of Sky so it takes place sometime 1998/9/2000/1

The Wee Free Men: "She was nine years old and felt that Tiffany was going to be a hard name to live up to."

4.6 The Rest

The rest of the novels are very hard to place and have been placed on the old timeline by pure guesses. But here's what we know.

Equal Rites Takes place sometime after The Light Fantastic and before Moving Pictures

  • Equal Rites: “Ook?” said the Head Librarian
  • Eskarina Smith is 7 and 8 in Equal Rites by the time of I Shall Wear Midnight it's hinted that she's old but look young, she can however time travel.
  • Equal Rites: "bow to Archchancellor Cutangle"

Wyrd Sisters Takes place sometime 15 years before Witches Abroad as the Lancre Timeslip moves the witches forward 15 years in time.

  • One theory is that this is sometime 5 years before Jingo as Leonard of Quirm is mentioned in Wyrd Sisters but goes missing 5 years before Jingo

Wyrd Sisters: “Who designed it?” “A daft old chap in the Street of Cunning Artificers,” said Vitoller. “Leonard of Quirm. He’s a painter really. He just does this sort of thing for a hobby. I happened to hear that he’s been working on this for months. I just snapped it up quick when he couldn’t get it to fly.”

Jingo: “I know who he is!” Fred hissed. “That’s Leonard of Quirm, that is! He went missing five years ago!”

Witches Abroad Takes place sometime 15 years after the early events in Wyrd Sisters. It is said that Nanny has known Granny Weatherwax for 70 years by this point.

Witches Abroad: "Nanny, who had known Esme Weatherwax for seventy years"

Lords and Ladies Takes place 3 months before Maskerade as Verence and Magrat gets married in it and in Maskerade it's stated that it's been 3 months since the wedding.

Maskerade: "And Magrat had been married for three months"

Carpe Jugulum Takes place sometime during the Century of the Fruitbat

  • Carpe Jugulum: "Are we not in a unique position as we reach the end of the Century of the Fruitbat?"
  • Esme is just 2 weeks old having been born sometime between Maskerade and Carpe Jugulum: “Little Esme’s only two weeks old,”
  • The novel ends with: "The year was past the edge, heading away from the dark…Of course, dark would come again, but that was in the nature of the world. Many things were beginning"

Sourcery Takes place sometime before Moving Pictures and less than 16 years before The Truth and Takes place about 16 years after Rincewind started trying to become a wizard

Sourcery: "he did have a small and exceedingly elderly wire-haired terrier called Wuffles"

The Truth: “How old would he be now?” “Sixteen,”

Sourcery: "Tonight would be the Eve of Small Gods, and a new Archchancellor would be elected... ...this year it was a pretty good bet that the gods would see their way clear to selecting old Virrid Wayzygoose"

Sourcery: "Examine Rincewind, as he peers around the sullen shelves. There are eight levels of wizardry on the Disc; after sixteen years Rincewind has failed to achieve even level one. In fact it is the considered opinion of some of his tutors that he is incapable even of achieving level zero, which most normal people are born at;"

Eric Takes place sometime before Moving Pictures

Eric: "Finally the new Archchancellor, Ezrolith Churn"

Interesting Times Takes place sometime after Moving Pictures and years ago since Sourcery

Interesting Times: "Mustrum Ridcully, as head of the college of wizard"

Interesting Times: "Rincewind is a bloody nuisance!.. ..Anyway, he hasn’t been seen here since that…unpleasantness with the Sourcerer, years ago."

One popular theory is linking Cohens age to Interesting Times and The Light Fantastic with this we might be able to place Interesting Times however he's rather uncertain of his age in Interesting Times

The Light Fantastic: “You don’t live to be eighty-seven in his job if you go around dying all the time

Interesting Times: “Oh, I dunno. Ninety? Could be ninety. Maybe ninety-five?”... ...“When you’ve survived for ninety years”

It's also very vaguely hinted that it might be 5 years since he saw rincewind in The Light Fantastic but the narrator dialogue probably doesn't mean exactly 5 years. it's just a figure of speech

Interesting Times: As far as Cohen was concerned, people appeared, people disappeared. After a five-year gap he’d just say, “Oh, it’s you.” He never added, “And how are you?.. ..To Rincewind’s relief a spare horse didn’t have to be eaten because a leopardly sort of creature dropped off a tree branch and tried to disembowel Cohen.

So with this to play with it could be that Interesting Times is sometime 3, 4, 5 ,6 ,7 ,8 years after The Light Fantastic this is often explained in theories as Cohen having been stuck in the Lancre timeslip for 15 years to fit with it also taking place after Moving Pictures and Cohen therefore is missing adding on 15 years, which would mean that Interesting Times takes place sometime 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23 years after The Light Fantastic, the old timeline used the lancre timesplit theory to fit this in.

One could use the Lancre timeslip to make this fit with what i've written about the timeline before. or one could simply postulate that Cohen was just 3 years off and is actually 98 as this would fit with Interesting Times taking place right after Moving Pictures 11 years after The Light Fantastic without having to include the Lancre timeslip. as we hear Cohen say himself he's not really sure about his age. so in all, we have no conclusive proof of Interesting Times taking place anywhere other than after Moving Pictures

The Last Continent Takes place "several / a couple of months" after Interesting Times and "years ago" since sometime after Sourcery

Interesting Times: "Rincewind was sent to some other place... ...“At least you can show us where you think our man is,”... ...“‘XXXX,’” Ponder read"

The Last Continent: "This was Rincewind after several months: his wizardly robe was quite short now... ... “I only got here a couple of months ago."

Interesting Times: "I don't know anything about that [unpleasantness with the Sourcerer]. I wasn't Dean at the time."

The Last Continent: “This is the memo saying I’ve been appointed as Dean!” he said. “That was years ago!”

The Last Continent also takes place sometime 3-12 years since Moving Pictures as Ridcully is appointed Archchancellor at the age of 67 in Moving Pictures and is still in his seventies.

The Last Continent: "Ridcully was in his seventies and spry even for wizards"

Unseen Academicals Takes place in the Year of the Pensive Hare sometime after The Truth and The Fifth Elephant

Unseen Academicals: "This is the year of the Pensive Hare.. ..the Times came along to take pictures... ...He had in fact got it from a leader in the Times"

Unseen Academicals: "Constable Haddock tells me the Igor’s on duty.. ..Constable Haddock.. ..Sergeant Angua.. ..Lance-Constable Bluejohn.."

Monstrous Regiment takes place more than thirty years from the Glorious Revolution and sometime after The Truth and the invention of Clacks.

Monstrous Regiment: “Have you met Constable Shoe, Clarence?” said Vimes cheerfully. “One of my staff. Been dead for more than thirty years"

Monstrous Regiment: "Because your men tore down the Grand Trunk, you see. The clacks towers... ...“I have seen the clacks towers on the far bank of the Kneck,” said Blouse, his eyes lighting up. “Very clever idea, using big shuttered boxes rather than the old-fashioned semaphore arms... ...William de Worde Editor, Ankh-Morpork Times"

Hogfather There really is no way to place this one what i know of, all we know is that Teppic has the same teacher in Pyramids as Teatime in Hogfather and we know it's sometime after Men at Arms as Constable Visit is mentioned.

Hogfather: "I am in fact Corporal Nobbs of the Watch. And this is Constable Visit, sir.”

Hogfather - Teatime: "We have to read it, you know, in class. Hah, old Mericet calls it the Guide to the Turf. No one laughs except him, of course"

Pyramids: "Teppic had Mericet for Strategy and Poison Theory every Thursday"

The Amazing Maurice and his Educated Rodents Is really hard to place. however we have some clues. Maurice is 4 years old in The Amazing Maurice and his Educated Rodents: "thought Maurice. I'm four years old already!"

Reaper Man Mentions Maurice little scam has taken place in several cities already

Reaper Man: “It’s just that…you remember the trouble with the rats last year? That man who said he had a pipe that played music only rats could hear?” “Yes, but that wasn’t really true, it was all a fraud, it was just the Amazing Maurice and his Educated Rodents—”... ...“Of course it bloody worked,” said the Dean. “It worked in Quirm and Sto Lat as well. He’d have got away with it in Pseudopolis as well if someone hadn’t recognized him. Mr. so-called Amazing Maurice and His Educated Rodents!”

One thing that might help us link the book is Three-quarters of a teddy bear It is hinted that Tiffany Aching might be the girl Maurice took part of a tea party with as a kitten.

The Amazing Maurice and his Educated Rodents: "Once, when he was no more than a kitten, he'd been taken home by a small girl who'd dressed him up in doll's clothes and sat him at a small table with a couple of dolls and three-quarters of a teddy bear."

The Wee Free Men: Last time Tiffany had tried to arrange a party, the guests had been a rag doll with no head, two wooden soldiers, and three quarters of a small teddy bear

This would place The Amazing Maurice and his Educated Rodents Sometime 3~4 years after Tiffany's birth to Sometime 3~4 years after The Wee Free Men

Pyramids is also really hard to place. Teatime in Hogfather has the same teacher as Teppic in Pyramids Dr Cruces appear in both Pyramids and Men at Arms and The Philosophers appear in both Pyramids and Small Gods

Hogfather - Teatime: "We have to read it, you know, in class. Hah, old Mericet calls it the Guide to the Turf. No one laughs except him, of course"

Pyramids: "Teppic had Mericet for Strategy and Poison Theory every Thursday"

5. Conclusion

The way I've puzzled together this timeline breaks none of the rules set forth at the start while the old timeline breaks several of them. However there can definitely be ways to break this timeline as well if we find some evidence. I see this new timeline as the more accurate timeline seeing as the old one is based mostly on wild guesses, the old one also doesn't include the Tiffany Novels and has issues with centuries.

My hope is that you guys can help me Evolve this list and further more accurately place these novels in the timeline, Maybe there are more clues in what weather or season we are experiencing in each novel for instance.

-WiktorReads 2021-06-20

6. Historical Moments

6.1 Something to think about

  • 1256 was counted Twice

Turtle Recall: the city eventually took to using the University’s Ankh-Morpork Years, which at least were reliable and happened one after the other, apart from 1256, which for some reason happened twice...

  • AM has been redefined and the calls to AM dates in the companions is following the UC definition of AM which is not the original.

Turtle Recall: It was founded in what was then known as AM 1282 by Alberto Malich, during the closing days of the Ankh-Morpork Empire... ...The wizards began numbering their years from that date

  • The Discworld is at least several hundred million years old.

Turtle Recall: The continents certainly have moved around (possibly on wheels of some kind, if the molten rock theory is discounted). Discworld time is always a tricky thing to measure, but by inference it must have been several hundred million years ago that the supercontinent of Pangola was struck by a giant meteorite, which may have killed off those lifeforms not equipped by a neglectful Nature to survive impact with flaming rock travelling at several thousand miles a second, and also instigated the break-up which led eventually to the Discworld of today.

6.2 Laws

  • 1341 UC - Dignity of Man (Civil Rights) Act
  • 1389 UC - Decency Ordinances
  • 1457 UC - Public Order Act
  • 1467 UC - Privacy Act
  • 1508 UC - Industrial Processes Act
  • 1567 UC - Public Forgatherings (Gambling) Act
  • 1581 UC - Being Bloody Stupid Act
  • 1634 UC - Projectile Weapons (Civil Safety) Act
  • 1673 UC - Domestic & Domesticated Animals (Care & Protection) Act
  • 1678 UC - General Felonies Act
  • 1678 UC - Public Ale Houses (Opening) Act
  • 1433, 1456, 1463, 1465 and 1470-1690 UC Licensed Premises (Hygiene) Acts

Sources: Turtle Recall The Discworld Companion

6.3 Other

  • The proto-continent of Pangola is split into 2 vast land masses -100,000,000 UC

Turtle Recall: About one hundred million years before the present day, in the period described by the wizard and geologist BORASS as the Borassic era, the proto-continent had clearly split into two vast land masses — Howondaland (named after the continent where his researches were largely carried out) and Lauragatea (partly named after the empire that occupies much of the Counterweight Continent, and partly after his mother).

  • XXXX splits off from the larger continent of Lauragatea -30,000,000 UC

Turtle Recall: It was the second, smaller continent of Lauragatea which, some thirty million years before the present, lost the even smaller and deeply mysterious continent known only as XXXX, which wandered off by itself (according to Borass) in search of the geographical equivalent of a cool drink.

  • The contents of the Ankh-Morpork History monk privy is emptied into a volcano -10,000,000 UC

Night Watch: Anyway, I use the temporal toilet, don’t I?” “A privy that discharges ten million years into the past was not a good idea, Sweeper. I’m sorry I let you persuade me.” “It’s saving us fourpence a week to Harry King’s bucket boys, Qu, and that’s not to be sneezed at. Is it not written, ‘A penny saved is a penny earned?’ Besides, it all lands in a volcano anyway. Perfectly hygienic.”

  • Hippos sunbathe on the banks of the river Ankh and the first street is formed as a bamboo replica by Qu performing time experiments -700,000 UC

Night Watch: Ankh-Morpork would have been surprised at how pleasant it looked seven hundred thousand years ago. Hippos sunbathed on a sandbank out in midstream and, according to Qu, were getting troublesome lately—he’d had to set up a little temporal fence around the camp at night, so that any hippos trying to wander in among the tents found themselves back in the water with a headache... ...As Lu-Tze approached, a line of joyful, dancing Monks wove their way along a bamboo replica of a street, letting off firecrackers and banging gongs.

  • The destruction of Um and Lu-Tze stares down a mammoth. -58,000 UC

Making Money: “The usual way. One of our golems heard one singing. Imagine that. It’s been underground for sixty thousand years…”

Thief of Time: “And I know when he is,” said Lobsang. “Only sixty thousand years away. So…” Lu-Tze, when they found him, was looking calmly up at an enormous mammoth At the far end of its trunk, Lu-Tze was saying: “So…you’ve never heard of Rule One, then?”

  • Formal Golem becomes the common language of Golems -18,000 UC

Making Money: “I can speak formal Golem. Is this ancient enough for you?”... ...“The common language of golems for the last twenty thousand years,” said Adora Belle.

  • Early Ankh-Morpork is built with stone -8,000 UC

Thud!: Ankh-Morpork was built on Ankh-Morpork. Everyone knew that. They had been building with stone here ten thousand years ago. As the annual flooding of the Ankh brought more silt, so the city had risen on its wall until attics had become cellars

  • Latest re-founding of Ankh-Morpork -1282 UC

Turtle Recall: Initially, they dated from the founding of the city, but Ankh-Morpork has been burned, razed, rebuilt — lost and founded, as it were — many times, and various rulers with more pride than sense have started the numbering from 1 all over again, usually from some vitally important event such as their accession to power.

Thud!: Forward two thousand years. Would a cube last that long? Hell, they bob up in molten lava!... ...“It’s a two-thousand-year-old legend! Who knows who wanted what?”

  • Unseen University is founded by Alberto Malich 1 UC

Turtle Recall: "Unseen University... ...It was founded in what was then known as AM 1282 by Alberto Malich, during the closing days of the Ankh-Morpork Empire (This lasted from AM 1, the building of one of the first cities in what is now the Shades area, until shortly after the founding of UU)."

The Fifth Elephant: “And he is crowned on the Scone of Stone and sits on it to give his judgments because all the Low Kings have done that ever since B’hrian Bloodaxe, fifteen hundred years ago. It…gives authority.”

  • King Murune begins his reign of Lancre 709 UC

Turtle Recall: Murune. A past King of LANCRE (709-745)

  • The king of Ankh builds a temple (now the royal bank) hoping for a god to show up to inhabit it. 1100 UC

Making Money: “This was the undercroft of the temple,” said Bent, leading the way. “Are you telling me this place doesn’t just look like a temple?” “It was built as a temple, yes, but never used as one.” “Really?” said Moist. “Which god?” “None, as it turned out. One of the kings of Ankh commanded it to be built about nine hundred years ago,”

  • The second expedition departs to XXXX from Ankh-Morpork. Approximately 1500 UC

Turtle Recall: It was believed that Xxxx has been the subject of at least two expeditions from Ankh-Morpork; the first, several thousand years ago, was led by a sourcerer and the second, some five hundred years before the present, was never heard of again.

  • Sir Gyles and Lady de Murforte starts construction of The de Murforte School for Gentlemen Assassins 1511 UC

The NEW Discworld Companion: The Guild as it exists today owes a great debt to its founders, Sir Gyles and Lady de Murforte... ...Work on the new school began in 1511..

  • The de Murforte School for Gentlemen Assassins was officially opened 27 August 1512 UC

The NEW Discworld Companion: The de Murforte School for Gentlemen Assassins was officially opened by King Cirone II on 27 August 1512

  • Vampire, Queen Grimnir the Impaler begins her reign of Lancre 1514 UC

Turtle Recall: Grimnir. Queen Grimnir the Impaler (1514-53, 1553-7, 1557-62, 1562-7, 1568-73). A vampire Queen of Lancre. The phrase ‘the Queen is dead, long live the Queen’ is particularly apposite in her case. [WS]

  • King Cirone II Establish the first formal post-network and appoints the first ‘Master of the Posts’ 1530 UC

Turtle Recall: In AM1530, King Cirone II established a formal network of messengers and horses along important routes and he appointed the first ‘Master of the Posts’ to administer the system and to ensure that it worked to maximum efficiency.

Turtle Recall: Little is known about the origins of the building which was to become the Guild House. It features in some early records of Unseen University as ‘the Plague House’, and the last known occupants before the mysterious fire and highly localised earthquake in 1547 were apparently The Brotherhood of Infernal Zoth the Undying Renderer, a contemplative order.

  • The Ankh-Morpork City Watch is founded 1561 UC

Turtle Recall: The Ankh-Morpork City Watch was founded, in 1561, by King Veltrick I.

  • The Fools Guild is founded by Monsieur Jean-Paul 1567 UC

Turtle Recall: It was in fact Monsieur Jean-Paul Pune who founded the Guild in 1567, when he came to Ankh-Morpork from Quirm in search of people with a better sense of humour who didn’t keep trying to drown him.

  • The first City Watch badge is made 1572 UC

Turtle Recall: When Veltrick HI took the throne in 1572, he was approached by the city’s merchants and agreed to make a modest allowance for the continued running of the City Watch. It was he who commissioned the striking of the first Watch badge, a plain disc or shield of copper

  • The de Murforte School for Gentlemen Assassins has its status elevated to that of a Guild and renamed: "the Royal Guild of Assasssins" 1576 UC

The NEW Discworld Companion: In 1576, it was invited by the city’s elders to elevate its status to that of a Guild, giving it voting rights in the city’s Guild Council, It then changed its name to the Royal Guild of Assassins

  • The Ankh-Morpork Post Office building is opened 1635 UC

Turtle Recall: By AM1635, King Lorenzo I (father of Lorenzo the Kind) had decided that the general public could also use the King’s Letter Office of Ankh-Morpork and the Sto Plains.

  • Baron von Wendeltreppe-Stecken-pferd was inhumed by Croydon Minimus armed with a one-armed teddy bear. 1687 UC

The NEW Discworld Companion: One exhibit which usually exercises the minds of boys for many a long night is the one-armed teddy bear (Mr Wuggle) used by Croydon Minimus to inhume the Baron von Wendeltreppe-Stecken- pferd in 1687.

The Ankh-Morpork Civil war... ...this would have been 1688... ...The last civil war, and execution and revelation of the personal habits of lorenzo the kind in 1688, marked the final end of any kind of monarchy in the city. ran from 8.32 p.m., 3 Grune, 432 to 10.45 a.m., 4 Grune 432

Turtle Recall: The Century of the Fruitbat was therefore the twentieth century. The Ankh-Morpork Civil War, which took place in 432 by the city count at the time, took place in AM 1688 by the more reliable University calendar

  • Gumler Vode is condemned for eternity to measure the length of endless street Approximately 1700 UC

Turtle Recall: Endless Street, Ghost of. Endless Street, Ankh-Morpork, is the name of the street running entirely around the city centre inside the city wall. It is said to be haunted by the ghost of one Gumler Vode, condemned for eternity to measure its length. Vode’s unfortunate sentence began some three hundred years ago.

  • The freehold of the main Assassins Guild premises are gambled away and passed seamlessly to Sir John Ramkin 1767 UC

The NEW Discworld Companion: Regrettably, in 1767, following a rash wager by the then head of the Guild, who believed that two pairs could beat any other hand, the freehold of the main Guild premises passed seam- lessly to Sir John ‘Mad Jack’ Ramkin, and has remained in the possession of the Ramkin family until recently, when it became part of the marriage gift of Lady Sybil RAMKIN to Sir Samuel VIMES, later His Grace the Duke of Ankh, with whom the Guild has a good working relationship.

  • Rascal, Methodia paints ‘The Battle of Koom Valley’ 1802 UC

Turtle Recall: Rascal, Methodia. Born, painted famous picture, thought he was a chicken, died. He’s believed to have painted around Discworld year 1802.

The Fifth Elephant: “No silver has been mined in Uberwald since the Diet of Bugs in AM1880, and the possession of the metal is technically illegal.”

  • The latest battle of Koom Valley is fought Approximately 1900 UC

Thud!: “About a hundred years old,” he said. “From the last big battle, a hundred years ago.

6.4 People

  • -53 UC - Alberto Malich is born

Turtle Recall: Although in real years he is only about sixty-seven, he has been alive while two thousand years have passed on the Disc.

  • 947 UC - Gladys is born

Making Money: “Er…how old are you, Gladys?” said Moist carefully. “One Thousand And Fifty-Four Years, Mr. Lipwig.”

  • 1200 UC Approximately - Lu-Tze is born

Turtle Recall: Although he is generally acknowledged to be 800 years old, there are some who claim he is 6,000 years old,

Thief of Time: HE IS LU-TZE, A HISTORY MONK. EIGHT HUNDRED YEARS OLD. ... ...He had eight hundred years’ worth of experience in steering the thoughts of his superiors

  • ? UC Rincewind

Sourcery: What? No! It says I’m a wizard, that’s what! Twenty years behind the staff,

Sourcery: Examine Rincewind, as he peers around the sullen shelves. There are eight levels of wizardry on the Disc; after sixteen years Rincewind has failed to achieve even level one.

6.5 Not placeable as of now

Sourcery: “We banished an Ipslore thirty years ago,” said Spelter

  • The throne of Ankh is abandoned with the death of the last line of the kings of Ankh.

Sourcery: The throne had been empty for more than two thousand years, since the death of the last of the line of the kings of Ankh.

  • The True Arte of Levitatione begins its occupation of the library rafters

Sourcery: the True Arte of Levitatione has spent the last one hundred and fifty years up in the rafters

  • TLF -30 years. The wizards start reading the mind of the Great A’Tuin

The Light Fantastic: “There’s a bunch of wizards that have been reading it in shifts for thirty years,” said Rincewind. “All they’ve found out is that Great A’Tuin is looking forward to something.”

  • TCOM -5 years Tethis starts living on the Edge

The Colour of Magic: “I have lived here on the Edge for five years and I have not had the courage,” boomed Tethis

  • TCOM -5 years A giant Kraken is swept into the circumfence.

The Colour of Magic: Terton, lengthman of the 45th Length, hadn’t heard such a clashing since the night a giant kraken had been swept into the Fence five years ago.

  • TCOM -8 years Twoflower starts saving for his trip to Ankh-Morpork

The Colour of Magic: “So I decided to see for myself,” the little man was saying. “Eight years’ saving up, this has cost me. But worth every half-rhinu

  • TCOM -200 years Codice of Chimeria kills the last dragon.

The Colour of Magic: “Dragons don’t exist,” said Hrun flatly. “Codice of Chimeria killed the last one two hundred years ago. I don’t know what we’re seeing, but they aren’t dragons.”

Sourcery

Sourcery should be placed one year after The Light Fantastic, as it's stated that the luggage "ate a spell book" last year. In the old timeline, someone mentioned that this was not possible as that would require the assumption that Vetinari were patrician in The Colour of Magic. I don't see why that is a problem, as Guards! Guards! makes it clear that it was Vetinari who legalised the Thieves Guild, a state which I believe was already the case in the very first book! Note I'm going through all the books in order now, and I'm currently up to Guards! Guards!, so excuse my ignorance of any facts. Danochy (talk) 02:26, 2 December 2021 (UTC)

Lu-Tze's birth

Sorry, but surely the nature of the History Monks means that, while Lu-Tze may have had 800 years of experience from his own perspective, that doesn't necessarily mean he was born 800 years ago, any more than it means he must have been in his seven-hundred-and-seventies when he stayed with Mrs Cosmopolite as "a young man" thirty years ago? Daibhid C (talk) 19:31, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

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